Choosing An Architect In 1970

[JMEvensky]

In 1970,my club in Memphis chose to swap the existing property for ~ 230 acres of undeveloped land.To my knowledge,there were no restrictions on whom they could hire to design the new course.Ellis Maples was chosen and the membership has been relatively pleased with the result.

The Men's Grill discussion among younger members revolves around the "what if's?".What if Pete Dye or RTJ or someone else had been hired?What kind of course would we be playing?

What would have been the same or different between now and then in hiring an architect?Would RTJ's fee have been a multiple of Maples'?Would the disparity in fees have been large between well-known and less-known architects?Would knowledge of different architects been limited to the few who travelled a lot?

It's just a Tap Room discussion but I figure people here will certainly be able to shed some light.

[Jeff_Brauer]

As to what kind of course you would be playing, just go play a Dye or RTJ course built in the same year.

As to fee variations, Jones would have been higher in fee than Maples, I am pretty sure.  By that time, the ASGCA and other professional "standard minimum fee" charts were under attack or outlawed and competition lowered fees among the regional architects.  I seemingly recall Jones charged 10%.  I know others from that era that charged 6-7% of anticipated construction costs.  I don't know what Dye might have charged a year after Harbor Town opened up to such great acclaim, but I bet he would be less than Jones and more than Maples at that point.

I doubt the hiring process has changed significantly.  Some just call the big names.  Some call local.  Some call ASGCA or the NGF for a list of names.  And some just happen to know a gca and they get hired without any competiton.

Of course, 1970 and 1971 were particularly signficant years when it came to who designed your course. With the end of private passenger trains and the formation of Amtrak, it was much less likely that HH Barker or others would be passing through your town on the way to somewhere.  We all know that when he passed any particular town, like Philly, that it was a guarantee that he designed courses there.........

[Trey Stiles]

I'm guessing Ridgeway ? ( I'm a former Memphian )

I never played the old course , what was it like ?

As you are aware , Joe Finger was a popular choice ( Colonial ) and of course he built a couple of strong layouts there. I'm a member @ Kingwood ( opened in 1973 ) , were Joe built the hardest ( for me ) group of Par 5's I've ever seen.

Dye did some very nice work in that era , but much different than what you have now .... If you had gone that route , you would have spent many , many dollars replacing RR ties by now. Waterwood National is ( was ) a wonderful example from that era , but the site was much better than anything you'll see in Memphis.

[David Stamm]

Good thread. I don't know Maples work, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too far from what RTJ would've done. Dye, I think, would be quite different and possibly would've aged better.

[JMEvensky]

Jeff Brauer,thanks.That's kind of what we were looking for.It's hard to imagine the process back then.Today,a few clicks on Google and you'd end up with 100 different opinions on 100 different architects.I imagine that unless an influential member had travelled/played extensively around the country,the default option would have been regional name recognition.

David Stamm,we actually do have our share of runway tee boxes so you might be right about RTJ.As to Pete Dye building something different,that's what originally prompted the discussion.A group of guys sitting around wondering what a different architect would have done on a given piece of property.