[Shane Wright]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Yes I agree, Colonial it is not. 

[PCCraig]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack-

So you would place the Kohler courses and Milwaukee CC ahead?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack-

So you would place the Kohler courses and Milwaukee CC ahead?

I would think easily.  I would rather play Lawsonia any day of the week.

[PCCraig]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack-

So you would place the Kohler courses and Milwaukee CC ahead?

I would think easily.  I would rather play Lawsonia any day of the week.

Interesting...it is on my very short list of courses to play and I will probably make it up there this June or July. I'll be sure to bring a camera.

[Phil McDade]

Some of the better GCA threads on Erin Hills, dubbed a "glacial links" by Dan Moore, by folks who have played it:

This is pretty in-depth on the individual holes by Dan:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29760.0.html

A 4-page thread, with Paul Richards take on it (pg. 2) and contrasting comments from Shivas among others:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,25475.0.html

A 3-page thread, with some of the same folks weighing in, but with a somewhat in-depth debate about Hole no. 1, which apparently has been extensively revised:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29130.0.html

For some reason, I can't find Jason Blasberg's thread which had extensive photos of the course.

[jeffwarne]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack,
Don't think you'd like Shinnecock or National then.
I loved Erin Hills.
Why are you so sure they'll change the green speed to what you call "Open speed"
maybe they don't need to and won't.

[Anthony Gray]

In my opinion this is exhibit A for why more dirt should have been moved at Erin Hills.  I'm not at all surprised by the resting place of this approach shot - I'm guessing 80% of the approaches played to the 10th green come to rest within five feet of this ball.



Mike

  Sounds like a great place for a pin.

  Anthony

[Garland Bayley]

In my opinion this is exhibit A for why more dirt should have been moved at Erin Hills.  I'm not at all surprised by the resting place of this approach shot - I'm guessing 80% of the approaches played to the 10th green come to rest within five feet of this ball.



Mike

Bogey,

Isn't it a better reason for not forcing Biarritz and Dell holes onto land that does not suit them? Seems C&C could have routed it and found great holes without having such greens.

[Phil McDade]

Garland:

Doak apparently did a routing of Erin Hills that was considerably different than the current course.

[J_ Crisham]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack,
Don't think you'd like Shinnecock or National then.
I loved Erin Hills.
Why are you so sure they'll change the green speed to what you call "Open speed"
maybe they don't need to and won't.

Jeff,  Glad that you loved Erin Hills- I liked it but didn't love it. For instance I loved Crystal Downs-It has a couple of quirky holes. Haven't played NGLC or Shinny but hope to this year- then I can comment from an experienced viewpoint. The Opens I've been to have had some pretty quick greens-are you suggesting the USGA is going to become less severe in their course setups? Not sure what  courses you have played in Wisconsin but I have played all of the higher ranked courses there over the last 30 yrs and it's just my opinion that there are better choices. That being said some of the clubs may not want or be capable of holding an Open.  The course just didn't justify the fanfare it received in my opinion-just my opinion.         Wish you well ,    Jack       

[PCCraig]

Garland:

Doak apparently did a routing of Erin Hills that was considerably different than the current course.

Phil-

In the other threads that where posted on Erin Hills there are a few mentions of T. Doak not getting the job. Can anyone elaborate as to why the owner picked Whitten and his group over T. Doak's firm?

Is it an industry no-no to talk about projects after the fact? If it is please let me know but I think it is interesting to see what two different GCA's would do with the same property.

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

As I recall, Tom on previous threads hasn't really elaborated on specifically how his routing was different than the one Hurdzan and Co. came up with. Don't know about the industry talk; it strikes me as a pretty small circle of folks doing this, so I'm guessing conversation and speculation occurs. I also don't know the specifics about how the Hurdzan folks were chosen; the guy who owns the place knew he had a pretty neat piece of property, and wanted to do something unique (or nearly so) with it.

[PCCraig]

Pat:

As I recall, Tom on previous threads hasn't really elaborated on specifically how his routing was different than the one Hurdzan and Co. came up with. Don't know about the industry talk; it strikes me as a pretty small circle of folks doing this, so I'm guessing conversation and speculation occurs. I also don't know the specifics about how the Hurdzan folks were chosen; the guy who owns the place knew he had a pretty neat piece of property, and wanted to do something unique (or nearly so) with it.

Thanks Phil-

I only asked only because I thought it would be neat to see what two GCA's would do with the same "great" (haven't been there yet) property.

Perhaps the blueprints were burned!

[Jim Colton]

Pat,

  I think Tom D did a routing for a previous owner of the land.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack,
Don't think you'd like Shinnecock or National then.
I loved Erin Hills.
Why are you so sure they'll change the green speed to what you call "Open speed"
maybe they don't need to and won't.

Jeff,

In what ways is Erin Hills similar to NGLA or Shinnecock?

[jeffwarne]

Tony,   My thoughts exactly-as I posted earlier this is a nice course but not even in the top echelon of Wis courses. If you have not played here it's hard to describe the number of quirky holes. It starts at the 2nd and pops up several times in the round. The green you are seeing is unpinnable in 40% of the green at open speeds. If you come to Wisconsin this is far down the list of their many great courses. It's also overpriced at $150. It ain't Colonial!
                                               Jack

Jack,
Don't think you'd like Shinnecock or National then.
I loved Erin Hills.
Why are you so sure they'll change the green speed to what you call "Open speed"
maybe they don't need to and won't.

Jeff,

In what ways is Erin Hills similar to NGLA or Shinnecock?

very similar topography and vegetation.
If you took the 10th, 7th, or 11th hole at Shinnecock and put them at Erin Hills you'd hear the same arguments (but the USGA would probably just want to change them as they did #1,#2, the dell hole, and #10 at Erin)
let's not forget #7 at shinnecock was unputtable in the 4th round of a recent US Open

There are many holes at National that if they were at Erin Hills, the naysayers would scream about
#1, #2,#3, #16

All great courses have been tweaked over the years-why do we condemn Erin Hills for a few quirks/things that may eventually (if not already) get tweaked?
I happen to like the quirks there but some  don't exist anymore

I was far more impressed with erin Hills than the hokey Whistling straits

[Jim Colton]

This letter from Mr. Lang details all of the renovations.

http://image.exct.net/lib/ff2312797363/d/1/Erin%20Hills%20Enhancements%20Spring%20of%2009.doc

 In 2008, Erin Hills was awarded the 2011 U.S. Amateur.    For some golf courses, this is a potential prelude to a future U.S. Open.  That decision has not been made by the USGA.

The USGA did not dictate, they only suggested, what could be enhanced…to make Erin Hills the best that she can be for championship and everyday play.   

Our goal is to enhance the golf course…and naturally make it better. The routing is still the original…with the exception that the challenging 19th hole next to the Halfway House is now #9…replacing the Dell Hole in the rotation. 

As you leave the clubhouse and approach #1, you will see the size of the putting green has expanded about 50%…toward the Starter Shack.

Hole #1…LONE OAK…The lower fairway was widened, providing more landing areas for the opening hole.  The ridge between the two bunkers leading to the upper fairway has been lowered about 8-10’.  Three bunkers were created just below the cart path next to the large dune on the right side of the upper fairway…leading to the green.

Hole #2…TURTLEBACK…Two major enhancements have taken place.  The left to right ridge just beyond the landing area was saddled…which will allow the golfer, with a good driver, to see the humpback green.  While keeping the same shape of the elongated green, the surface area was increased about 50% to the south and to the west toward Hole #3.

Hole #3…TAMARACK…From the tee, you will now see three large bunkers…on the left side of the fairway.  The front right side of the green at the approach area was enlarged about eight yards further east from the center of the green.  We also expanded the green within one foot of the front bunkers.  Two bunkers were added next to the right bunker thirty yards out from the green.  Additional bunkers were added to the left front of the green.  #3 is now more beautiful, challenging and fun to play.  The green was expanded on the south side.

Hole #4…SEA OF FESCUE…The green was moved up into the saddle to the left side of the signature Oak.  Additional bunkers were added on both sides of the fairway.   
Now the green rests between the signature oak behind the old green and the large dune west of the bunkers.  The former left bunkers are now directly in front of the new green running parallel with the fairway.  The fairway now undulates over the old green to the new elevated green left of the signature oak.  Another series of bunkers runs parallel to the right side of the fairway…just east of the signature oak.
   In addition, the fairway now goes around the left side of the original bunkers in front of the green.  There are three new bunkers on that side of the fairway at the base of the large dune.   All in all, I believe that the new #4 green site will offer the golfer definitely more beauty…far more of a challenge…and hopefully, a lot more fun.  A visit to play Erin Hills this year, I suggest, will be worth the trip…just to see and play the newly enhanced #4.
   
Hole #7 NEW…TEETH OF THE WIND…For everyday play, the new #7 (old #8) will now be a par 5 (which will make Erin Hills a par 73 golf course).  The tees will be at the top of the hill offering a panoramic vista of a great part of the country.

Hole #9…DEVIL’S HALO…The same seven existing bunkers encircle the green.  The left and right side of the green was expanded out within a foot of the bunkers.  This will offer more challenging and fun to play tee shots and hole locations from high above the tee on the hill. 

Hole #10…THE BIARRITZ…As you hit your second and third shots toward the green, you will now visually see beautiful and challenging series of bunkers on the right side of the fairway facing into the ridge at the existing bunker complex.  On the left side of the green, there is an additional series of bunkers just below the existing bunkers. 
   As you approach the saddled biarritz green, there is a large bunker at the lower left corner that can affect the very good amateur, any of those who played the championship course and everyday players alike. 
   The front third and the back third of the Biarritz green have been lowered 12-18”.  This change will allow for more hole locations…that will be fair and easier to putt.  The valley in the middle remains.  Additional bunkers were added along the fairway…and one large bunker guards the front left of the green.




Hole #15…VOLCANO…The only enhancement on the 15th is the lowering of the ridge by twelve inches through the center of the green.  The ridge is still there…just lower.

Hole #16…PUNCHBOWL…Bunkers were added to the right and left side of the green.
 
Hole #17…CATHEDRAL…All of the enhancements took place just beyond the landing area and the signature oak tree to the right side of the fairway.
   The large esker, that big mound which comes from the left side front of the green to the middle of the fairway is still there in the same natural shape.  It has been shortened naturally.  Hit a drive to the center of the fairway, and you will now have a full view of the green.

Hole #18…HOLY HILL…The existing fairway, bunkers and green all remain the same.  However, the fairway now widens on the right side up the ridge, which is 35’ below the old #8 tees.  The golfer will now be challenged by a series of left side and right side bunkers, as he lands his second shot

Additional bunkers were added to #5, 7, 10 and 14.

All of the above described enhancements simply raise Erin Hills to another level of quality, beauty, challenge and playability.  You will also observe a lot more of the “wow factor”.  We simply want Erin Hills to be a better golfing experience for you.

With such a short season, opening in July, we encourage you to “call now”.  We are extremely excited to share these new enhancements.  Please accept the challenge and call 262-670-8600 and make your tee time for July, August, September and October.

Hope to see you soon.

Golf is a Journey,
Bob Lang

[Jim Colton]

Based on the slew of changes and the time that the course was closed, does anybody want to venture to guess how much this cost them compared to if these changes would've been implemented when the course was first built 3 years ago? I'm just wondering.

[Paul Richards]

Looking forward to seeing these changes in person!

[Phil McDade]

Based on the slew of changes and the time that the course was closed, does anybody want to venture to guess how much this cost them compared to if these changes would've been implemented when the course was first built 3 years ago? I'm just wondering.

Jim:

I haven't seen or played EH, so take this for what it's worth, but I've followed the course development pretty closely during the past five years here in Wisconsin. The course owner set out from the very beginning, I'd argue, to make this a special place, and a public course, with the hope (I think it's fair to say) of drawing some recognition and luring a big-name tournament. When it was awarded the public links tourney -- even before it had opened -- it was widely viewed as a dry run to see how the course held up, and in particular what the USGA thought of it, as it was clear the course was angling for a bigger tourney than just the public links.

Some on the discussion board have theorized that with ball/club technology, the USGA and PGA may one day get to a point where they can only hold majors on courses specifically designed for hosting majors. I think Erin Hills is the first test case of that theory -- the folks there seem willing to make significant changes in the course to satisfy the USGA re. the upcoming US Amateur, and --presumably -- the US Open bid the EHills folks hope will come.

So, to answer your question, the cost angle isn't really the interesting angle -- the EHills folks have shown they are willing to do what's necessary to draw a big tourney (like the US Open), even to the extent of making substantial changes (and closing down the course for roughly three months of play) at the behest of the USGA, just a few years after it's opening.

[Phil McDade]

Here is Dan Moore's detailed thread, dubbing EH a "glacial links," written not long after its opening.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,29760.0.html

(posting on both current EH threads...)

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