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Doug Braunsdorf

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Seaview Resort Under New Management
« on: May 18, 2009, 07:28:02 PM »
All-

  In reading the Press of AC over the weekend, Seaview has a new management group in place. 

 I do not know what plans are in store for the golf course.  There was another article in the paper, where I believe the head professional or superintendent had a brief quote, but I can't seem to find a link to it.   Here's another link:

http://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/atlantic/article_16b18ba5-d063-5b1c-8557-3cfb363cfb09.html

More related stories are found here:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/search/?region=ac&sort=d%3Ah&t=article&nitems=10&siteSource=%2Fsearch&q=Seaview&dbquery=Search...

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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 09:44:42 PM »
From the Troon website:

http://www.troongolf.com/company/press_room/story/429.php

I've always enjoyed the old photos near the pro shop and locker room of the glory days when Seaview was a premier private club- the
ANGC of the summer season.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 10:04:43 PM »
From that Troon web link is the following line, which I really find a bit unusual:

The original links-style golf course, known today as the Bay course, was partially designed by Hugh Wilson in 1915. Donald Ross completed the course the following year by adding sand bunkers.
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 08:47:28 AM »
Joe: It isn't hard to figure - saying the course has two outstanding architects rather than one means the course has to be better and you can charge more to play it.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 08:50:30 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on May 19, 2009, 08:47:28 AM
Joe: It isn't hard to figure - saying the course has two outstanding architects rather than one means the course has to be better and you can charge more to play it.

I should have been more clear Jerry:  this is the first time I've heard a course being "partially designed".  The course did open and was played on based upon Wilson's design.  Then Ross apparently did a nip and tuck.  I would not call this completing the design!

Is Bethpage Black ever referred to as being "partially designed by Tillinghast and Burbeck, then completed by Rees Jones"?  I've never seen it.

(sorry for the Burbeck reference, Phil.  ;)  )
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 09:58:28 PM by Joe Bausch »
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 09:56:28 PM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on May 19, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on May 19, 2009, 08:47:28 AM
Joe: It isn't hard to figure - saying the course has two outstanding architects rather than one means the course has to be better and you can charge more to play it.

I should have been more clear Jerry:  this is the first time I've heard a course being "partially designed".  The course did open and was played upon based upon Wilson's design.  Then Ross apparently did a nip and tuck.  I would not call this completing the design!

Is Bethpage Black ever referred to as being "partially designed by Tillinghast and Burbeck, then completed by Rees Jones"?  I've never seen it.

(sorry for the Burbeck reference, Phil.  ;)  )

IIRC, Marriott, while managing Seaview Resort, always referred to the Bay course as designed by Donald Ross.  I didn't know that anyone, outside of those here, ever acknowledged it was designed by Wilson and modified by Ross.  When did things change?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 10:01:41 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 10:28:36 PM »
Doug,

Ron Whitten wrote a GD article a few years ago about Wilson doing the original design for the Bay Course and Ross doing the bunkers later. It's referenced in a footnote here:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaview_Marriott_Resort

The article is no longer available.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 11:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on May 19, 2009, 10:28:36 PM
Doug,

Ron Whitten wrote a GD article a few years ago about Wilson doing the original design for the Bay Course and Ross doing the bunkers later. It's referenced in a footnote here:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaview_Marriott_Resort

The article is no longer available.

Thanks, Steve.  I may have been mistaken; all I can remember is seeing Ross' name attached to the Bay course, and the "Ross drawings" in the locker room.  I seem to recall reading that article and Whitten saying words to the effect that Wilson was weak at bunkering. 

It will be interesting to see if the new management has any plans for the course, architecturally.  I thought I read an article in the AC Press that interviewed a staff member who discussed (again, words to this effect) of "making the course more playable" and "cutting some of the higher grasses down".   I think Mike Cirba noted the routing had been changed by Marriott, to end both nines near the first tee.  (I fail to see the point in this, as there isn't a nine hole fee, and the snack bar is across Route 9).

I do have high hopes that the new management will not alter the course.  But, it's their course.  Fingers are crossed. 
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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Niall C

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 07:42:39 AM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on May 19, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on May 19, 2009, 08:47:28 AM
Joe: It isn't hard to figure - saying the course has two outstanding architects rather than one means the course has to be better and you can charge more to play it.

I should have been more clear Jerry:  this is the first time I've heard a course being "partially designed".  The course did open and was played on based upon Wilson's design.  Then Ross apparently did a nip and tuck.  I would not call this completing the design!

Is Bethpage Black ever referred to as being "partially designed by Tillinghast and Burbeck, then completed by Rees Jones"?  I've never seen it.

(sorry for the Burbeck reference, Phil.  ;)  )

Joe,

If Shug Wilson did the original routing but either didn't do a bunkering plan are it wasn't implemented, and then Donald Ross came along later and then put in all the bunkers having decided himself where they should go, I would suggest both deserve credit, no ?

Niall
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 07:52:11 AM »
At least they are giving Hugh Wilson some credit almost a century later!

If someone finds the thread I started back in DEc I describe who did what hole by hole as best as the evidence makes provable.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 09:56:56 AM »
Niall, I don't really have a problem at all acknowledging Ross' contribution to Seaview.  But the course was designed, not partially designed, IMO, by Wilson.  Then Ross came along and added some bunkers and a few other changes.
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Niall C

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Re: Seaview Resort Under New Management
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 11:06:53 AM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on May 20, 2009, 09:56:56 AM
Niall, I don't really have a problem at all acknowledging Ross' contribution to Seaview.  But the course was designed, not partially designed, IMO, by Wilson.  Then Ross came along and added some bunkers and a few other changes.

Joe

Don't disagree on giving Ross some credit but the point I was trying to make (obviously poorly) was that if Wilson designed a course without bunkers with the stated intention of deciding on bunkering at a later date then until he had completed the design ie. decided where to put the bunkers, then all he has done is provide a partial design. If I'm wrong that Wilson did include bunkering in his design then my my apologies. I picked up the reference to him looking to do the bunkering at a later date from either this thread or the previous one, however hopefully you see my point.

Niall
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