[Gary Slatter]

Gary,

I believe you got to play TOC semi-regularly when you were living in Fife. How did your appreciation of it change over time? Did you go through any periods of thinking you had it sussed that some speak about, before it got your number again?

What lesser-known course in Fife should more people visit?

I got to enjoy the Old Course in the different seasons - I think I enjoyed the fall conditions the best. It plays longer and slower in the winter with different challenges.  In my short 2.5 years the OC was fast and firm less than I had expected and it sure was different then - much shorter but more exciting, putting from 50 yards out became my go to shot!  George Peper seemed to be the best in all seasons, he seemed to win our Stableford pot at least once a month, always 36 points.  As much as I love the Old Course I don't think I'd enjoy it being the only course if I could play just one.  I think it was the whole experience there, the course, the Thursday Club guys, the social in the St Andrews Golf Club every week - unbeatable.  The one thing I did not enjoy was the constant bickering about the condition, the Links management, the policies, etc.  But now I realize that's golf in Scotland! 

I really enjoyed playing LUNDIN as much as any course in the area.  It's where Malcom Campbell plays and I know why.  Panmure was also fun to play.  I regret not playing all 46 or so course in Fife.  Royal Burgess (just across the bridge) was a great surprise, I loved the course, reminded me of Rosedale in Toronto.  If I moved back and joined another club other than St Andrews Golf Club (no course) it would be LUNDIN in Lundin Links.  I like the fact the course is Lundin and the town is Lundin Links.  Anstruther clubhouse has the best food in Fife.

[Gary Slatter]

  Gary,

  Thanks...very insightful and entertaining.

  I loved Slapshot....is it the best hockey movie?

  My favorite Hockey fouresome to golf with would be me and the three Hanson Brothers.What hockey players would fil out your foursome?

  The day I played NGLA..Messier called but could not get on. Am I more famous?

  How many holes-in one? Where?

  Charles Blair Macdonald was born where?

  Moonstruck was filmed in Toronto......very cool when the old man howled at the moon with tose dogs.

  You've lived a very complete and blessed life with a wonderful wife....What is one thing you haven't done but want to?


   Golf is great because of the people that play it.

  Anthony

SLAPSHOT is my favourite hockey movie, for some reason it reminds me of Erie Pa where I played a few great courses with some former players from that rough and tumble league (which I have forgotten the name of).

My favourite hockey foursome would be Grant Fuhr (he can really play),  99, and Ed Chadwick.

I've had only two holes-in-one.  The first was Pine Valley (the Canadian course that was rebuilt to be the National), 2nd hole, 225 1 iron.  The second was Horsehoe Valley in Barrie Ontario, forget which hole but it was an 8 iron.. Horsehoe as far as I know was the first course designed by Eric Hanson and Al Balding, a superb testy 18 holer.  Eric also was involved with Markland Wood in Toronto, the first course that I ever knew was 100% sodded with bent.

I haven't played Pine Valley!  Buddy Marucci had arranged a game for a Sunday at noon and the day before while playing Hartfeld the pro rode out and said I have good news and bad news - Buddy had to go to a funeral and the game was off, the good news was we went to Congressional which is my wife's favourite course.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Gary
Thank you for sharing

"This process, from finding an architect (from 33)"

Could you describe what was done to select an architect?
What were the criteria?

Best

[Gary Slatter]

Gary
Thank you for sharing

"This process, from finding an architect (from 33)"

Could you describe what was done to select an architect?
What were the criteria?

Best

Our selection to find the architect for the New Reef Club was a bit unusual.  We started by considering Ron Garl, a friend and he had worked on Grand Bahama Island years ago on the same ground.  I had spent time with Ron in Lakeland and at various ING meetings. But we contacted the Association, sent our criteria to 33 different architect firms.  In our info we mentioned  our entire budget was $4 million.  We heard back from about 15 (the responses went to our corporate office which was also building the new resort, Our Lucaya).  One was interesting, Greg Norman's firm said the budget wasn't enough unless it was just the fee, and they kindly recommended another name pro.  Anyway we narrowed it down to two, Ron Garl (he flew us into La to see the Moneypit under construction), and Arnold Palmer (he invited us to one of his projects in Boca West and to the offices in Jacksonville).

However, on the night before a decision was made we received a call from the parent company in Hong Kong telling us that Robert Trent Jones II was doing the course.  I think because the owners were Chinese and were going to be doing more projects in China, he saw it as a good foot in the door.  He called us, sent Ty Butler to check out the property and a year later we opened the course for the PGA Senior Slam, won by Hale Irwin.  We sent out details to 8 construction companies and ended up with Total Golf who worked well with Ty during the year.  We finished on budget but had to do a lot of "value engineering" during the process.

RTJ II was fun to work with, entertaining for sure. Not sure if he got more work in China, but for his fee we got great value.

[Gary Slatter]

Gary

Nice Blog.  Nicer job location!

What is your teaching style?

What do you think some of the swing mechanics fads over the last few years: (1) stack and tilt; (2) one plane; (3) the Golf Machine.

Was Moe Norman a happy person?

What our your favorite five courses?
 

Hello Jason,
what is my teaching style?  I always try to find the best part in any situation and in teaching I always try to take advantage of the good things in anyone's swing.  Because 90% of my teaching has been with corporate golfers it isn't right to rebuild their swings the day before they play with the boss so I would work on the basics, posture, grip, alignment and then whatever I could to get them to finish the swing on their left side, "buckle toward the target".  Simple things that can improve existing games.

For longer term "patients" I try to get people to restrict their lower body movement during the back swing and then turn back toward the target as fast as they can - I love watching Ernie Els swing and it is slow enough that most pupils can relate to the movements.  I teach Target as soon as I can, the target has to be in the minds eye before every swing.  I've found if you start with a putt, then a chip, a pitch and a half swing you can get people enjoying the game quickly.

I think all the recent fads are good for some people (usually the teacher) and some people can relate to almost any "system".  Stack and Tilt is the way someone said I was swinging in the 60s, then Ballard came along with his sway and hit....  I think one plane is good for certain people (engineers).  When working with IBM we had different methods for the golf schools for different departments -engineers were different from sales people etc.  The Golf Machine was difficult to figure out, a friend Tony Evershed spent a long time studying it and has good success teaching.  My favourite teacher is Sandra Post and I don't think she has any set method other than understanding her pupils.

Was MOE NORMAN a happy person?  I wouldn't think happy is a mood or condition than Moe showed.  He was sincerely happy for George Knudson or Al Balding to succeed.  When I came 2nd in the CPGA Moe was sitting on the 18th tee as we came up, he said "I am so happy for you, it's your day, your day!"  He was happy if other people were happy, he was angry when people laughed when he hit a great shot. He was easily distracted and didn't trust many people - can you be happy then?  Moe was happy when he was entertaining people, as long as they didn't laugh, clapping was appreciated, laughing was for hyenas.   I think he is the most unique great golfer of his century, it's a shame none of us managed him properly so the world could have seen and appreciated him like I do...difficult thinking about Moe right now, sorry.

My favourite five courses keep changing - at one time they were all championship tracks Carmoustie, The National in Toronto, St George's, Ballybunion, Royal County Down.  Then for a few years Cog Hill was my favourite course, I had to play it at least once every year.
My current five:  Muirfield, County Down, St Georges, Prestwick, Royal Aberdeen.   I really have trouble getting down to just five, make it a 100.

thanks for asking

[Gary Slatter]

Anthony,

I hate to break it to you, but you're not more famous than Messier... at least not in Canada, anyway 

  That day on the first tee I was. Then again I was wearing orange shorts.

  ARG

Milke Smith and I were avoiding a huge buffet line in Acapulco one time and saw Jimmy Carter well back in the line, we asked him to join us and he wouldn't !

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thank you for sharing your architect decision.
Interesting situation.
Cheers

[Greg Tallman]

Anthony,

I hate to break it to you, but you're not more famous than Messier... at least not in Canada, anyway 

  That day on the first tee I was. Then again I was wearing orange shorts.

  ARG

Milke Smith and I were avoiding a huge buffet line in Acapulco one time and saw Jimmy Carter well back in the line, we asked him to join us and he wouldn't !

Oh my... Mike Smith eh? Acapulco no less. Quite the used ball business Mike had going down there!

[Greg Tallman]

Gary,

I played Cinnamon Hill what must have been shortly before the redesign. In reviewing the current layout am I correct that the only holes that remain largely untouched from the pre 2001 work are 1-4, 10, 11 and 18. Is the green site for 15 the former site for a downhill par 4 green? 

Must say I liked old #8, pretty intimidating little par 4. That said current 5 & 6 seems to make far better use of the land. Is 5 green all the down where 8 green used to be? Gracias.

[Gary Slatter]

Gary,

I played Cinnamon Hill what must have been shortly before the redesign. In reviewing the current layout am I correct that the only holes that remain largely untouched from the pre 2001 work are 1-4, 10, 11 and 18. Is the green site for 15 the former site for a downhill par 4 green? 

Must say I liked old #8, pretty intimidating little par 4. That said current 5 & 6 seems to make far better use of the land. Is 5 green all the down where 8 green used to be? Gracias.

Greg, yes the same Mike Smith who made enough in used balls to move to Santa Barbara and Palm Springs, owns IGM golf.
Cinnamon Hill renovations were done by Rick Baril and I expect he'll add his comments,  he did a great job keeping a fine routing and today Cinnamon Hill represents a great variety of golf challenges, it's asuper fun course with the world's best caddies!
All of the holes got new tees, fairways and greens and you are correct that 1-4 (par 5,3,4,3), 10 (short 4), and 11 (uphill 5) were the least touched. 18 was lengthened and is a short par five with a new green across the same deep ravine.
The new 5th is the best par four running down to the sea.
The 6th is a dumb par three but in a great location, short shot across the sea. it plays in the reverse direction of a former hole.
The 7th is new (direction), 8 and 9 are new holes built over old ones running in the opposite direction.
The 15th is now a mid length par three and I believe it used to be the second shot on a wicked dog leg (James Bond was filmed on the green).
The 17th used to be a 3 shot (all with 7 irons) par five, it was turned into a super par four which I hear is still suffering from a hurricane 5 years ago.
I didn't play the old course and joined in when Rick was finishing up.  Craig Martin was the GM and he negotiated the course improvement budget with the owner, Mrs Rollins.

RICK, please help....

[Greg Tallman]

Gary,

I played Cinnamon Hill what must have been shortly before the redesign. In reviewing the current layout am I correct that the only holes that remain largely untouched from the pre 2001 work are 1-4, 10, 11 and 18. Is the green site for 15 the former site for a downhill par 4 green? 

Must say I liked old #8, pretty intimidating little par 4. That said current 5 & 6 seems to make far better use of the land. Is 5 green all the down where 8 green used to be? Gracias.

Greg, yes the same Mike Smith who made enough in used balls to move to Santa Barbara and Palm Springs, owns IGM golf.
Cinnamon Hill renovations were done by Rick Baril and I expect he'll add his comments,  he did a great job keeping a fine routing and today Cinnamon Hill represents a great variety of golf challenges, it's asuper fun course with the world's best caddies!
All of the holes got new tees, fairways and greens and you are correct that 1-4 (par 5,3,4,3), 10 (short 4), and 11 (uphill 5) were the least touched. 18 was lengthened and is a short par five with a new green across the same deep ravine.
The new 5th is the best par four running down to the sea.
The 6th is a dumb par three but in a great location, short shot across the sea. it plays in the reverse direction of a former hole.
The 7th is new (direction), 8 and 9 are new holes built over old ones running in the opposite direction.
The 15th is now a mid length par three and I believe it used to be the second shot on a wicked dog leg (James Bond was filmed on the green).
The 17th used to be a 3 shot (all with 7 irons) par five, it was turned into a super par four which I hear is still suffering from a hurricane 5 years ago.
I didn't play the old course and joined in when Rick was finishing up.  Craig Martin was the GM and he negotiated the course improvement budget with the owner, Mrs Rollins.

RICK, please help....

Thanks Gary. Mike and I have shared a boss in common and his used ball stories kept me rolling considering that I understood what he was up against when the new regime took over down there.


Do you recall what old 16 had been...a long par 3 with near death left??? Or is my memory fading? Even in the old design I thought CH was as good or better than WW even given the great desparity in conditioning and the "power line hole" (14 perhpas). Interesting in that I don't recall 17 as that bad of a hole and definitely did not play it as you suggest. I think I remember having a longish iron in and going left... which was not good. 18 was a good closer even though terribly boring from the tee which was more than made up for by the approach.

Anyway, How much time did you spend in Jamaica? How did you find it as a place to live? Did you feel threatened at any time? Montego not exactly the safest place on the planet! 

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