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Bryan Izatt

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Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« on: February 25, 2009, 03:07:37 AM »
There has been considerable reference recently to this new C&C course north-west of Orlando.  A lot of the comment is on the conditioning of the greens, but note that the course is otherwise excellent.  I was there a couple of weeks ago and took lots of pictures, shown in this and the following post.

SM is part of a residential development.  In the current economic climate and housing market, the housing component looks like it'll have a tough time getting off the ground.  There are some model homes, but the tract currently looks kind of scruffy.  The course too, looks a little rustic - it won't be confused at the moment with a typical manicured FL course such as those 30 miles to the south.  In fact, driving up from Orlando, the land reminded me more of the wild west than it did Florida.

I've only played a couple of C&C courses, We-Ko-Pa Saguaro and TSN North, so I'm not an expert on C&C, but I did think that it had the style and aesthetic of those two courses.

I played in 2 and three quarter hours at the end of the day and consequently didn't spend a lot of time studying the layout or even framing the pictures, but following are my impressions from that visit.  The course played firm and fast and had the most elevation change I've seen in Florida (or in many other areas).  The largest change in one hole that I measured was over 100 feet.  The greens as noted in other threads are a work in progress.  They were so heavily top-dressed when I played that I didn't really put much stock in the putting although I'd note that if they were also firm, fast and true, they'd likely be hell to putt.

As you approach the first tee, there is a lovely view of Lake Apopka, which gives some idea of the elevation of the property.



The first is a medium length par 4, downhill, all laid out in front of you.  It eases you into the round.



But, don't miss left, the bunker is well below grade and collects any errant shots on the left.



And, here is the first green showing the heavy top dressing.  It was interesting (and helpful) to have the ball tracks of other players to use as guidance on a first go-around on the course.



The 2nd is a longish par 5 somewhat uphill with a large waste area left.  Interesting difference in sand color between bunkers and waste areas.  I wonder if it was native sand in both.



A closer view of the waste area left of the LZ.  Nice transitions to the surrounding scrub land.




An almost skyline green except for those two annoying trees.



The 3rd is a longish par 4 somewhat downhill and bending to the left.  The fairway cant looks like it will propel a hook, shortening the hole.



A specimen tree guarding the left front of the green.   The green looks like it was built on grade.




The 4th is a medium par 4, that plays short because it is significantly downhill.  The tee shot is blind.  Was that radio tower on the horizon intended to be a target line.  Where the hell does the hole go?  Oh well, it's only truly blind once.



Cresting the hill; what a lovely green setting!



A look from the LZ - maybe you could run a shot in from the right side?



A view of the green - this one required a little resodding.  No bounce and roll there.



The 5th is a longish par three with a green that has a left tier and a right tier, with the whole green then tilted right to left.  I expect that this one will require a lot of analysis to figure out a line of attack to get to the various pin positions.  The pin this day was on the slope between the tiers- a tough, tough pin.



And, a view from the back of the green.  Too bad pictures flatten contours out.



The 6th is a shortish par 4 and another blind tee shot, but, this one uphill.  Again, a little head scratching - where does the hole go?



Ah, it bends left and uphill to a small Pringle green.



.......  more to come


Bryan Izatt

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 04:09:51 AM »
The 7th is a longish par 4, uphill and partially blind as a result.  The location of the green is not immediately apparent.  But guessing that the bunker is on the inside edge of a dogleg and the green is not near the maintenance barn suggests a dogleg right.



From the LZ next to the bunker, the flag is visible.  The bunker is more of the reddish sand.



The hole continues to climb from the LZ to another (almost) skyline green.



The 8th is a shortish par 3, slightly downhill to a Redan-like green with just a hint of a lip on the back edge to stop slow rollers.



From behind the green, a surprise (at least the first time) hidden bunker.




The 9th would be a shortish par 5 if not for the 50 foot rise from tee to green.  And, the angled crossing bunker narrowing the landing areas.



A closer look at the crossing bunker, and the green up the hill.



The short third shot to another  (not quite) skyline green with a nasty false front.  And, a lovely tank on stilts.  Part of the rustic western look.



A look from the green back down the fairway.




The 10th turns back into the setting sun and is a long slightly downhill par 4.  Nice centre line bunker just to get your attention.



The second from the left rough - a long shot and a nasty bunker right of the green that collects errant shots.  Neither left nor right appears to be a good angle to approach the green.  Perhaps you're supposed to flirt with that little pot in the middle of the fairway.



The 11th is a short sub-120 yard par 3 to a push up green.  A large tree intruding slightly from the left.  A delicate little shot.



Another closer view of the green.



The 12th is a long par 5 with a slightly blind tee shot.



The second shot presents a crossing bunker (actually two slightly separated bunkers).  Layup or carry?



The 13th appears to be a very long par 4 on the card.  Again, head scratching - the hole definitely goes down, but where? I'm beginning to think there are a lot of blind shots on this course.  Definitely oriented to member repeated plays where the blindness will not be an issue.



Cresting the hill, it goes down, way down - more than 100 feet.  Despite being 500 yards, if you can get your drive bounding down the hill it can be a short 4.



A closer view of the green reveals a significant front to back hogs back.



The 14th is a medium par 4, laid out in front of you.  A downhill dogleg right, bite off as much as you want to chew of a naturalized swampy area, risk/reward type of hole.  Seems like many other holes of this type.  It doesn't fit my eye.



The green from closer in - don't try to run a ball up, the slope of the land to the right bunkers is fierce.



The light is starting to fail.  We're on the wrong side of the mountain.  The 15th is a very short, but severely uphill par 4 hole - perhaps driveable if you're on the right tees, but the fairway is canted right-to-left towards bunkers.



From the LZ, a short chip up to the, still, partly blind green.



A close-up of the green, probably severe, given the short length of the hole, but the whole front left section of the green had been stripped to the underlying sand based ready for resodding.  This green was in the worst shape of the bunch.



At this point the light faded enough that pictures weren't possible.

The 16th is a long par 4, relatively flat, with a swale running across the fairway in front of the green. 

The 17th is a really long par three, but at least 70 feet downhill, to a large green.

The 18th is another short par 5, but again, severely uphill.  At least what I could see in the dark   ;D

Those who have seen more of the course or studied it more can correct me where I've got it wrong. 

I hope they are able to remedy the greens issue and have enough business to stay in business.  The course is well worth visiting if you're in the Orlando area.  It's certainly atypical of FL layouts.  But, before you go make sure you have good directions, it's well out of the way.



Sean_A

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 06:14:21 AM »
Brian

I really enjoyed that tour - cheers!  The course looks lovely.  I particularly like the use of elevation.  While SM doesn't look English, I suspect it would play like some of the hillier heathland courses.   While I would like to see some trees come down, they are often used quite intelligently to ease the transition zones.  Vegetation and squiggly lines also help tremendously with transition areas.  The one hole I would point out as looking outstanding is the 9th.  These C&C guys seem to be very different from the rest of the architectural crowd. 

I am starting to think the Florida golf doesn't look so bad.  Are the public access courses which stand out (this one, Pine Barrens, Sawgrass and maybe a few others) somewhat close together?  how bout good privates near these?   



Ciao
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 06:21:02 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Nicholas Coppolo

Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »
Great tour....I have always loved C&C's golf courses.

Missed previous posts on the greens, whats the story there?

Jon Heise

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 12:06:41 PM »
That looks fantastic!  Forgive me if I missed it, but is this public?  We've been in the early stages of planning an Orlando to Tampa trip, and if this is something we can add to our list... wow.

Great pics.

I still like Greywalls better.

Eric Smith

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 12:18:11 PM »
Thanks for the tour Bryan.  The most I had seen of this course. 

Looks incredibly fun to play.

Eric

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 12:22:33 PM »
Sean,

I thought you might like the transitions.

Sawgrass is a 3 hour drive away to the northeast of SM.  Pine Barrens is two hours west.  So, they're not really day trips if you're centred in Orlando area.  There are some other interesting, good curses in the Orlando area - Deltona Club, Victoria Hills, and Southern Dunes come to mind.  None of these are your typical flat FL water laden tracks.  The most interesting (public) courses in FL seem to me to be centred around Orlando, with Pine Barrens and Sawgrass not too far away if you drive and stay in those locations.  Sort of like going to St Andrews to play and then driving to Aberdeen and playing around there, and then driving to Dornoch and playing around there.

I'll leave the nomination of privates around Orlando to others - I've never played any.

Nicholas,

There's a thread on the greens issue still on the first page, and others you can easily find by searching over the last couple of months.

Jon,

It's supposedly going to be private when the housing is complete, but now they're anxious for business to keep afloat, so access is easy and the price is reasonable if you can live with the condition of the greens.  There are suggestions that you need to take the housing tour to get access but that doesn't seem to be happening.

rjsimper

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 01:07:15 PM »
"A little rustic?"

I'd like to present you with an award recognizing your skill in understatement.

Hopefully this does not become FLs Apache Stronghold.

Cory Brown

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 09:08:34 PM »
"Part of the rustic western look."   ???

Didn't you say the course was in Florida?


K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 09:16:29 PM »
"A little rustic?"

I'd like to present you with an award recognizing your skill in understatement.

Hopefully this does not become FLs Apache Stronghold.

It reminds me a bit of Blaketree National north of Houston in it's current state.

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Sugarloaf Mountain - Pictorial Tour
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 09:25:28 PM »
Ryan got the understatement part right.  I meant it in a scruffy, unfinished sense.  Indeed, Apache Stronghold comes to mind in a conditioning sense.

It is in FL, but if we dropped you , Cory, on the property you might think you were in Texas or SoCal.  You might think that tumbleweed would be blowing through at any point and that horseback riders might appear over the next rise. It has that look about it.  Dusty, dry, windy, scrubby looking.  You wouldn't confuse it with Grand Cypress or Sawgrass or Doral.

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