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Scott Warren

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"World class"
« on: February 16, 2009, 05:11:50 AM »
It's a term used in probably every field of endeavour, so what is the definition of a "world class golf course"?

Is it world top 50/100?
Any course that regularly draws international visitors?
A course that has inspired the design of others?



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Philip Spogard

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 05:41:28 AM »
It is one of those weakly defined terms, like 'Championship Course'. Doesn't it depend a lot on who is making the judgement and in what regard?
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 07:46:30 AM »
I would assume so, Philip. I was hoping to see what definition some here would come up with were it up to them.
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Adam Clayman

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 07:49:08 AM »
As I understand it, the number of great courses is under 40. The very good would probably fill out two top 100 lists, but thats a guess. So, WC would have to be the top of the heap.

I don't think it is anything like the term championship course.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Druzisky

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 11:20:48 AM »
Unfortunately it seems it can be any resort property that spent a lot of money developing it that is marketing to customers internationally.
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JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 11:23:34 AM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on February 16, 2009, 05:11:50 AM
It's a term used in probably every field of endeavour, so what is the definition of a "world class golf course"?

Isn't it...Any course that Trump owns? ;)
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 11:26:32 AM »
JSlonis,

Gotta agree.......

"This place, when it's finished, will be the finest club anywhere in the country," he told The Washington Post last night. "There will be nothing like it. I already own the best ones, so I know."

- Donald Trump
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 11:27:14 AM »
Scott,
It means "I tell you how great I am, and you believe me".

Crass marketing.
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 11:29:50 AM »
Kalen,

I was just going to post that quote, it's really comical. 

I'm not sure what is more funny, the actual quote or the fact that he might really believe it.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 11:43:41 AM »
JSlon,

I think the Donald truly believes his own schtick...if you something it enough, you'll eventually believe it.

Just ask Orenthal, he took this method to new levels!!  ;D
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Kirk Gill

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 12:41:17 PM »
The use of "world class" as a marketing term is one thing, and I think we all understand the hyperbole/deceit used by those who are selling something. We expect it, and mitigate it internally once we've experienced enough of it.

But the term gets thrown around a lot in this forum, and in the descriptions I've read of many golf courses and holes. It seems obvious that it means that a course/hole is in the top class world-wide, but I must admit that I'm interested in the criteria, and how one hole or course is so obviously in this class, while others are not. I know that wide experience would be necessary to feel qualified to make such judgements, but are there any objective criteria, or are we just talking about one person's opinion?
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"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Sean_A

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 05:55:37 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on February 16, 2009, 07:49:08 AM
As I understand it, the number of great courses is under 40. The very good would probably fill out two top 100 lists, but thats a guess. So, WC would have to be the top of the heap.

I don't think it is anything like the term championship course.

Adam

Why do you understand the number of great courses to be under 40?  I am thinking that there are probably close to 90 in the US and Canada alone.  So the total number is likely in the neighborhood of 130.  Even if we are brutal in our selections there ahs to be 100.  Considering the number of courses in the world (what, 25,000?), 100 is well under 1% so I would think all the great ones are world class courses. 

Ciao

« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 05:45:07 AM by Sean Arble »
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Adam Clayman

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 12:19:30 AM »
Sean, This was an opinion expressed to me in a private conversation. The speaker was someone who has played on almost every continent. I believe I have also seen that same number thrown around on this site. Both opinions are from people who I would not argue with on the subject.

I do find it hard to believe there are 130 "great" courses world wide. Great being a very tough nut to crack.

While it does all boil down to opinion, there's absolutely no correlation to "Championship course".
 
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "World class"
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 05:54:09 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on February 17, 2009, 12:19:30 AM
Sean, This was an opinion expressed to me in a private conversation. The speaker was someone who has played on almost every continent. I believe I have also seen that same number thrown around on this site. Both opinions are from people who I would not argue with on the subject.

I do find it hard to believe there are 130 "great" courses world wide. Great being a very tough nut to crack.

While it does all boil down to opinion, there's absolutely no correlation to "Championship course".
 

Adam

Of course "greatness" is a matter of opinion.  However, even if 200 courses were considered great that is still less than 1% of the world's courses.  If folks can't see greatness in a Doak 7 than I feel for them.  Perhaps your "insider" really tries to differentiate between the great courses and the really exceptional ones.  However, if this were the case, I would be surprised if there are 40.  Probably more like 25 tops.   

I agree that there is no correlation to championship courses, but I don't think Philip ever meant to make a correlation that way.  He was simply saying that the terms are subjective and therefore to some degree meaningless.

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Scott Warren

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 08:59:36 AM »
"Great" depends what you use to compare. Is the world number 200 golfer great? if you compare him to 98% of all golfers I'd say yes. Compared to the guys in the top 10? No, of course not.

If you compare a World 100-200 course with Pine Valley you could of course tear holes in it, but if you make the comparison with a goat track somewhere, it will shine.

My gut says the cut-off for "world class" would be somewhere from world 100-150, judging by the small number of courses I have seen compared to most others on here.
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Kalen Braley

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 09:06:08 AM »
Sean,

Just as another persons opinion, I've never equated greatness with world class.  World Class to me includes great attributes as well as being very unique with nothing else out there quite like it.  It would have a sublime routing, amazing holes, and overall fits in the "dream golf" type of experience.  I would guess there are no more than 20-30 of these courses as well.
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Jason Connor

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Re: "World class"
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 10:54:41 AM »
a) If any course (or other institution) calls itself world class, it almost certainly isn't.

b) I think you have to have people travel internationally just to play it.



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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson
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