[Patrick_Mucci]

Chuck Brown,

Riviera and Prestwick ?

The most disappointing opening tee shots ?

Might I suggest that you either post under the name of TEPaul, or claim that TEPaul is posting under your name.

[Chris Cupit]

WFW--yes very demanding and greatly improved with the tee removal on the left and the hedge removal that used to "hide" the old tee box.  But, with the range and netting just off to the right the tee shot itself while difficult is not awe-inspiring.  Now, as soon as you turn the corner of the fairway and see that first approach shot to that amazing green, well then I get chills

ANGC--maybe the whole Augusta effect just hits you on #1 but it is an absolutely terrifying tee shot.  Your nerves are just as bad as on TOC but you have an infinitely more difficult shot.  All you see is that enormous bunker and anything airborne is somewhat of a relief.  I would never describe the first tee shot there as "disappointing".

Disappointments for me:
Quaker Ridge
Nairn
RCD--maybe its only because I am absolutely in love with the rest of the course (#3 is all world).  The opener between the mounds was just ho-hum for me.
Old #1 Royal Liverpool (Hoylake)--lost ball/unplayable left and cops/OB right may be the hardest opener I've ever played but not my idea of the great opener--just too hard

Great first tee shots:
NGLA
Shinnecock
Merion
TOC
Muirfield  (and I really have no desire to ever play there again )  That left bunker is about perfect.

[Rich Goodale]

Vis a vis Stanford, I loved that hole when I play it as a student ion the 60's.  Expansive view, the thrill of a highly elevated tee shot, the challenge of hitting the ball solid to, fiurstly, get it airborne, and secondly, to thread (if 50-60 yards of fairrway involves "threading") your way between the bunkers right and left, then a death or glory second shot through the narrow defile towards the green (or a lay up, if you were as smart as the admissions office claimed you to be).  The best aspect was the (NLE) rickety wood and steel bridge that carried you above the traffic and across the road onto the warm turf of the fairway.  Now, getting back to the 21st century....

Prestwick!  You must be mad, Chuck.  Easily one of the top candidates for best opening hole, but I do feel your pain.

Chris--agree with you re: both Hoylake and Muirfield.  The former is a great hole when it plays in the Open routing as #3, but as an opener, far too goofy.  The latter is arguably the finest opening hole in the world of golf.  Also agree with you and others regarding NGLA.  I could play that whole every day for the rest of my life, if they would let me....

[Mike Benham]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

[John Kirk]

Thanks for the warning!

[Damon Groves]

I would include Pasatiempo.  I know that the bowling alley feel of #1 is due to the driving range and some other changes over time, but I did not like it when I first stepped up to the tee.  I loved it from there on, though.

I'd agree Art, the course to me really started on the 2nd hole...it was disappointing.

At least with Pasatiempo you have the elevated tee box and the excitement of the others waiting to tee off. At LACC North there is no theater and a flat boring freeway of a hole. I see no comparison between the two with LACC North having by far the worst opening hole. 

[Anthony Gray]

Oh, yes, Mike--I forgot North Berwick.  Thanks.

  I love this tee shot. First a wonderful panaramic view of the fishing village and rock formations in the water. Not many courses have this. Secoundly it is not demanding and gets you into the round pleasantly, much like uor beloved Old Course. What's not to love?

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

I believe I am in line with my elderly idol Mr. Benham in confusion over this.  Can we define disappointing?

Because I surely don't find CPC nor Pasa's openers disappointing.  Rich and I have argued over CPC before and to each his own... but re Pasa, well.. it is tight, for sure, but it's a damn hard shot and gets the blood flowing early... what is "disappointing" about it?  Did you expect something else on this very tree-lined course?  Is it the range to the left instead of more trees?  I don't get it.  But maybe it's because for me, having played the course for many years, these days it's as open as it's ever been so I find it fun, fair and challenging...

If one wants to talk disappointing openers, then as is so often the case, Bob H. nails it - the opener at LACC North is sleep-inducing.

TH

   I think as a general rule an architect does not want you disapointed early in the round. So short par 4's with width of the tee should be desirable. Disapointing would be a demanding tee ball. Who wants to double the first?

  A double on the first is how I would define disapointing.
  Anthony

[Sean_A]

Oh, yes, Mike--I forgot North Berwick.  Thanks.

  I love this tee shot. First a wonderful panaramic view of the fishing village and rock formations in the water. Not many courses have this. Secoundly it is not demanding and gets you into the round pleasantly, much like uor beloved Old Course. What's not to love?

  Anthony

Ant

NB's 1st never bothered me either.  Any hole with those views and that green site can hardly disappoint.  Though, I would like to see the idea of making it a par 3 explored.  It would be interesting to see an overhead to figure how far up the tee can go without being a serious problem for the 18th.  A way to introduce the idea (and in keeping with my belief that reducing yardage slightly and par makes courses tougher to par for those who have the card and pencil mentality) is to have the medal tees play forward as a par 3 and daily tees play back as a par 4.

A few candidates I would mention are:

Rosses Point, Portrush, Ballybunion, Formby, Notts, wait, back up, yes, Notts is the one.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Oh, yes, Mike--I forgot North Berwick.  Thanks.

  I love this tee shot. First a wonderful panaramic view of the fishing village and rock formations in the water. Not many courses have this. Secoundly it is not demanding and gets you into the round pleasantly, much like uor beloved Old Course. What's not to love?

  Anthony

Ant

NB's 1st never bothered me either.  Any hole with those views and that green site can hardly disappoint.  Though, I would like to see the idea of making it a par 3 explored.  It would be interesting to see an overhead to figure how far up the tee can go without being a serious problem for the 18th.  A way to introduce the idea (and in keeping with my belief that reducing yardage slightly and par makes courses tougher to par for those who have the card and pencil mentality) is to have the medal tees play forward as a par 3 and daily tees play back as a par 4.

A few candidates I would mention are:

Rosses Point, Portrush, Ballybunion, Formby, Notts, wait, back up, yes, Notts is the one.

Ciao

Sean,

I can't see any safety issues with regards to the 18th in moving the first tee at North Berwick forward... In fact, it would reduce safety problems on the 1st Tee I would have thought....

I can see an issue with visibility though... The closer you go, the blinder you get. You could be removing what is already seen as a controversial opener to replace it with an even bigger one - A blind Par 3... And as an opening hole no less.... Plus it brings in to consideration safety issues going the other way... i.e. The 17th Green (blind) from the 1st Tee...

This all from hazy memory - Could do with an overhead as well...

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

As you should know, the tee for the 1st at NB used to be about 100 yards further back from where it is.  Now that would ahve been a great hole.....

Rich

[Anthony Gray]

   North Berwick.......Great place for a BUDA!!!!

   Anthony

[Sean_A]

Oh, yes, Mike--I forgot North Berwick.  Thanks.

  I love this tee shot. First a wonderful panaramic view of the fishing village and rock formations in the water. Not many courses have this. Secoundly it is not demanding and gets you into the round pleasantly, much like uor beloved Old Course. What's not to love?

  Anthony

Ant

NB's 1st never bothered me either.  Any hole with those views and that green site can hardly disappoint.  Though, I would like to see the idea of making it a par 3 explored.  It would be interesting to see an overhead to figure how far up the tee can go without being a serious problem for the 18th.  A way to introduce the idea (and in keeping with my belief that reducing yardage slightly and par makes courses tougher to par for those who have the card and pencil mentality) is to have the medal tees play forward as a par 3 and daily tees play back as a par 4.

A few candidates I would mention are:

Rosses Point, Portrush, Ballybunion, Formby, Notts, wait, back up, yes, Notts is the one.

Ciao

Sean,

I can't see any safety issues with regards to the 18th in moving the first tee at North Berwick forward... In fact, it would reduce safety problems on the 1st Tee I would have thought....

I can see an issue with visibility though... The closer you go, the blinder you get. You could be removing what is already seen as a controversial opener to replace it with an even bigger one - A blind Par 3... And as an opening hole no less.... Plus it brings in to consideration safety issues going the other way... i.e. The 17th Green (blind) from the 1st Tee...

This all from hazy memory - Could do with an overhead as well...

Ally

I am sure of the tee is moved forward it starts to become a problem for those teeing off on 18 as the bailout area for guys trying to avoid the road.  Of course, if the tee were moved 125 yards forward it may eliminate the problem.  I don't see where blindness is any more a problem than now.  Folks hitting their seconds today would essentially face the same problem.  

I did forget to mention that rejoining 17 & 1 greens would make this plan work better because all would be in fully in sight.  As it is now, there is a lot of waiting in this area because guys hit their tee shots so far left on #1 to avoid the beach.  I have done this more than once and then just aimed my second for the back of the 17th thinking the ball would kick onto the 1st - and it did.  

Rich

I am not claiming that NB's 1st is in anyway great, but it is far from disappointing except for the fact that the start is usually halting because of the delays around 17 green. 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean,

I just happen to think that a blind second shot on a par-4 is far more acceptable than a blind par-3 for the first hole.... That said, with a tee by the Sea, the shot wouldn't be fully blind at all...

Don't think you are correct re- safety elements though... Is the bailout area seriously the first fairway by the beach?

I like the first at North Berwick... Not only does it give you the option of choosing to go for the green or not, it is also a classically strategic hole... Play close to the beach on the right and have an open, easier approach. Bail out to the left and you leave yourself with a blind more difficult approach (one that was apparently considerably harder before the right hand side of the green was built up)

[TEPaul]

Mike Benham:

Thank you for finding this thread in the back pages and bringing it back. I think it should be brought back up every 120 days or so simply to remind this website what a DUMB CLUCK Richard Goodale really is!! 

 

PS:
Actually the photo he has chosen for all his posts is just as representative, as it clearly shows him to be an Al Queda-like terrorist leader out to destroy all decent architecture and intelligent architectural thinking all over the world. I am shocked that Scotland would harbor terrorists like that.

[Sean_A]

Don't think you are correct re- safety elements though... Is the bailout area seriously the first fairway by the beach?

Ally

I have seen shorter hitters go that way because its safer and the second is easier from the left.  For myself, I nearly put my drive on the roof of the pro shop (not too far from the present 1st tee - acting a bit like a buffer) once trying to keep left.  In some respects that 18th is goofy.  I always try to stay left because 1) the road and my car are right and 2) the chip in from the left is easier than from right in front of the green. 

Ciao

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I have always considered the opening shot at Merion as on eof my all time favourites.
Of course I am totally enamoured with the place from top to bottom and that no doubt influences my verdict.
But the whole atmosphere around that first tee, with the patio, the poaonna putting green behind the tee with the bag stand...just awesome enviroment to start a great course.

[Andy Troeger]

CPC is an interesting example to me because the ONLY thing wrong with the hole is the hedge IMO--if you take that out (and don't have the road there which I suppose is more the actual problem) I think its a fabulous opener.

Pasatiempo is pretty cool too IMO--not as good as many of the other holes but I can definitely think of worse holes than that one. If it started on #7 then by all means it would be the clear winner for the bowling alley derby.

Pebble's tee shot didn't do much for me other than it being Pebble and having the opportunity to be the first on the tee for the day. That made it a cool experience anyway.

[Jim Nugent]

On CPC's opener: what a difference in the two pictures of this hole, on the hardest 1st hole thread.  I doubt many if any would find the older version disappointing at all.   

[Tim Gavrich]

I found opening tee shot at the Cascades at the Homestead to be the least interesting on the golf course.  That's one of the reasons I prefer the Old White at the Greenbrier; it starts off with a bang, while I feel like the Homestead takes a hole or two to warm up.

[ed_getka]

Now that the Merion threads are just smoldering, let me try to inject a newish bit of iconoclasm (we've/I've mentioned this before).

Cypress Point.

Drive over an impenetrable hedge 50 yards or so form the back tees.  None of the rest of the hole is visible except the highest branches of the big tree in the right rough.

Making the opening tee shot at that great course such a bummer must have taken an incredible amount of poor design and/or wimpiness of later committees who allowed the hedge to be planted and/or grown.

Can anybody think of a worse example?

Dang Rich I don't remember you being that short! I could see the fairway just fine when I was there, although the early morning sun pretty much precludes actually seeing your ball land.
Dornoch is pretty blah off the tee, and Dornoch is one of my favorite golf courses in the world.

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