[Tom Dunne]

*sigh*

The NLE SK at Flinders is also in my story. By the time you guys are finished with this thread, though, they'll probably kill the piece for total lack of novelty.

[Bill_McBride]

#16 at Crail Balcomie is officially their "Spion Kop," but #13 might be even more of one.  It's straight up that cliffside about 200 yards! 

Thoughts?

So far I've decided the hole has to actually be named "Spion Kop" to be one! 

[Dan Moore]

The battle of Spion Kop was a noteworthy event on the Boer war.  The battle took place in January 1900.  Spion Kop was a well fortified hilltop defended by the the British army against an assault by the Boers.  After a fierce battle,  the Boers were able to dislodge the British from the artillery pocked hillside.

Boer Soldiers on Spion Kop


http://www.britishbattles.com/great-boer-war/spion-kop.htm

As Terry Lavin points out, Flossmoor CC in Chicago which opened for play in 1900 shortly after the battle of Spion Kop from its inception had a hole named Spion Kop.  As interpreted by H.J. Tweedie, Flossmoor's Spion Kop was an uphill  140 yard (now 178/187) yard par to a well fortified green located atop a hillside plateau.  The green today is missing a massive bunker that fronted the original green as shown in an early map of the course. 

Flossmoor's Spion Kop today sans fronting bunker.  A superb hole with a green that runs away and to the right.

[Steve Salmen]

Is 16 at Royal Dornoch a Spion Kop?

[Sean_A]

You lot are killing me with your wee plateau green wannabe Spions.  Here is an SK with a different name.  I wonder if a member of Burnham had a mate (or whoever) who was at Majuba rather than Spion Kop?  Its more likely that when Burnham's Majuba was created the Battle of Spion Kop hadn't yet occurred.  Which begs the question, why aren't these nasty little buggers called Majubas?

Sadly, Majuba is no longer, but Majuba lives on because it has suffered the indignity of being of being leveled so two tees could be placed on her.  I am telling ya, those guys back in the day were serious.  This hole which would have played something like 220 yards or more into a prevailing wind must have been one sob.   



I don't think Dornoch's 16th is an SK simply because because the Scots weren't gonna take an English name even if it was a defeat!

Ciao

[Dan Moore]

Is there evidence that any holes were named Spion Kop prior to the Battle of Spion Kop in January 1900? 

[John Nixon]

The par 5 13th at Riverside muni in Indianapolis is similar to what I think ya'll are describing. It's actually a par 4 that's been made a 5 so all us hacks don't blow a gasket after failing time and time again to negotiate the blind 25' uphill approach. The pic, not a great one, is from behind the green looking back down towards the tee.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

That's an impressive looking dune.  However, it looks like the green is somewhere to the right of it.  The 13th at Crail which Bill refers to above (and which is not the Spion Kop hole) is about 210 yards into the prevailing wind and the elevation is every bit as significant as the dune your picture shows.  I have played 13 with a driver and struggled to reach then played 14 (a 160 yd hole back down the same hill) with a wedge.  Great fun.

[Bill_McBride]

Sean,

That's an impressive looking dune.  However, it looks like the green is somewhere to the right of it.  The 13th at Crail which Bill refers to above (and which is not the Spion Kop hole) is about 210 yards into the prevailing wind and the elevation is every bit as significant as the dune your picture shows.  I have played 13 with a driver and struggled to reach then played 14 (a 160 yd hole back down the same hill) with a wedge.  Great fun.

Mark, it's easier to drive #15 at Crail than #13!

[Phil McDade]

Is there eveidence that any holes were named Spion Kop prior to the Battle of Spion Kop in January 1900? 

Dan:

Good question -- the Balcomie links at Crail date to 1895 (the club dates back to the late 1700s) and the 16th there is called Spion Kop. Sharply uphill -- much more so than the one at Flossmor, which altough a neat-looking hole, seems to simply pay homage to the concept, as opposed to strictly replicating it. The 16th at Crail Balcomie is one uphill tee shot!

[Sean_A]

Sean,

That's an impressive looking dune.  However, it looks like the green is somewhere to the right of it.  The 13th at Crail which Bill refers to above (and which is not the Spion Kop hole) is about 210 yards into the prevailing wind and the elevation is every bit as significant as the dune your picture shows.  I have played 13 with a driver and struggled to reach then played 14 (a 160 yd hole back down the same hill) with a wedge.  Great fun.

Mark

No, the green is directly over Majuba.  In fact, the current green is some 30 yards beyond where this gentleman was playing.  My guess is that guy is trying to hook the ball to ride the prevailing head and right to left cross wind.  Plus, where the old green was there is a kick in off the right.  I don't think this was a two shot hole back in the day so some of these guys must have been able to reach the green especially when the Haskell came along. 

However, previous to Majuba heading in this direction it did play from the left of the pic over Majuba to the right of the pic.  Though the hole was much shorter when it did head straight into the prevailing wind.

Ciao

 

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

That's an impressive looking dune.  However, it looks like the green is somewhere to the right of it.  The 13th at Crail which Bill refers to above (and which is not the Spion Kop hole) is about 210 yards into the prevailing wind and the elevation is every bit as significant as the dune your picture shows.  I have played 13 with a driver and struggled to reach then played 14 (a 160 yd hole back down the same hill) with a wedge.  Great fun.

Mark, it's easier to drive #15 at Crail than #13!

Indeed.  In fact I reckon 15 (a par 4) is an easier three than either 13 or 18 (both par 3s).  It really is a crazy back 8 at Crail: 5 (reachable, easily in the prevailing wind), 5 (almost a par 5.5 in the prevailing wind), 3 (and everyone is happy to walk off with a 4), 3, 4 (driveable), 3 (Spion Kop, a tough 3), 4 (long one), 3 (again 200+ yards into the prevailing wind).  Consecutive par 5s followed by 4 par 3s (all good ones) in the last 6 holes.

[Scott Sander]

The par 5 13th at Riverside muni in Indianapolis...

Well, I'm fairly sure that's a first-time mention of Riverside here.

Since you've opened the door to hardscrabble Indy munis - the par 3 #9 at Forest Park in Noblesville seems to fit the template exaclty, though I doubt it was intentional.  Seems more likely that they just ran out of room, what with the parking lot two steps to the left, the lush astroturf first tee three steps to the right, and the clubhouse directly behind.

It's actually a charming hole:  tee it up, hit your wedge, then hike a staircase. 
If you find your ball, great.  If not, your car is right there.

[Mark Pearce]

For some reason Scott's post reminded me of the 7th (I think, the one after the Volcano (tm Rihc)) at Anstruther.  Hit a tee shot towards the wall of rough.  Walk up the steps (literally) and find your ball, which has one correct and one wrong green it may have ended up on, if it reached a green at all.

[John Nixon]

The par 5 13th at Riverside muni in Indianapolis...

Well, I'm fairly sure that's a first-time mention of Riverside here.

Since you've opened the door to hardscrabble Indy munis -  Forest Park in Noblesville

Dang, now you've got me started... #9 at South Grove (yet another Indy muni, next door to Riverside), looooong par 3, the first 170 yards off the tee dead flat, then a sharp 15-20' rise to the equally flat green.  Hit and hope.

[Kalen Braley]

Sean,

Very nice pice and while that shot looks intimidating with the large dune, that golf swing looks ever more exotic.  I'm not sure if he's trying to hit that ball or getting ready to pounce on it.

P.S. Based on the explanation Cirba gave with how he hits his wedges, doesn't that sort of fit the mental picture of what his swing must look like?   

[Anthony Gray]

You lot are killing me with your wee plateau green wannabe Spions.  Here is an SK with a different name.  I wonder if a member of Burnham had a mate (or whoever) who was at Majuba rather than Spion Kop?  Its more likely that when Burnham's Majuba was created the Battle of Spion Kop hadn't yet occurred.  Which begs the question, why aren't these nasty little buggers called Majubas?

Sadly, Majuba is no longer, but Majuba lives on because it has suffered the indignity of being of being leveled so two tees could be placed on her.  I am telling ya, those guys back in the day were serious.  This hole which would have played something like 220 yards or more into a prevailing wind must have been one sob.   



I don't think Dornoch's 16th is an SK simply because because the Scots weren't gonna take an English name even if it was a defeat!

Ciao

  And people don't love 15 at Cruden Bay?

   Anthony

[Sean_A]

You lot are killing me with your wee plateau green wannabe Spions.  Here is an SK with a different name.  I wonder if a member of Burnham had a mate (or whoever) who was at Majuba rather than Spion Kop?  Its more likely that when Burnham's Majuba was created the Battle of Spion Kop hadn't yet occurred.  Which begs the question, why aren't these nasty little buggers called Majubas?

Sadly, Majuba is no longer, but Majuba lives on because it has suffered the indignity of being of being leveled so two tees could be placed on her.  I am telling ya, those guys back in the day were serious.  This hole which would have played something like 220 yards or more into a prevailing wind must have been one sob.   



I don't think Dornoch's 16th is an SK simply because because the Scots weren't gonna take an English name even if it was a defeat!

Ciao

  And people don't love 15 at Cruden Bay?

   Anthony

Anthony

I think the big difference between CB's 15th and Burnham's 17th is that Colt had the good sense to make a proper hole out of what was merely a curiosity - tee hee. 

Ciao

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