[David Stamm]

It seems like a purely penal hole to me. 

Hit the fairway and hit the green.  It is memorable because of the blindness, but I cannot think of much strategic interest presented by the hole.

Nonetheless, I would look forward to playing it again.

Why is it held out as an example of good design?  Or is it?

Jason, one word. Adventure!

[Ed Oden]

I've never been to Prestwick.  But #3 at NGLA is arguably the best and most fun hole on the course.  Any hole that sets the standard at the most influential course in the US is, in my opinion, worthy of reverence. 

Ed

[Sean_A]

Jason,

From the fairway, Perfection appears very much like Alps' second.  My only point in bringing up 17 at NB is that the second must be flown to the green, like Alps.

Conceptually (I am gonna use Jeff's word a lot now!), I think NB's 17th and Prestwick's Alps are very different.  Blindness is what separates the two initially.  But also, the carry over a dune and a bunker at Alps is in a different league to NB's 17th - which is really a severe plateau green.  I like NB's 17th a lot, but to make it work properly, it should be combined with the 1st green.  I think originally folks were meant to come in from the difficult to hit right side of the fairway.  This leaves a bunker to go over, but a lot more space to aim at.  Now, most just bail left because you get to avoid the bunker and the size of the green is essentially the same no matter which angle you come in from.  Nobody talks about it, but this is one of the great design screw ups on a classic course - it should have been on that list Ran did some time ago.  If someone can pull that thing up it might be cool to look at it again. 

Tom D When I last played Prestwick I had to hit 7 wood over the top of the Alps, but it was a bit breezy. 

As to why the Alps is revered, because its a damn good hole!


Ciao

[Anthony Gray]

  Is the hole part of the original layout of the first Open? Unchanged?

  Anthony

[TEPaul]

For historical interest in the so-called "Alps" hole in America it should be noted that Myopia had a hole named "Alps" apparently in 1894 and The Tuxedo Park Club had one named "Alps" in 1893.

[Tom_Doak]

Anthony:

Yes, the Alps was one of the original twelve holes at Prestwick.  I'm not in my office to check out the routing and see which hole it was, but it was definitely in there.

[Kalen Braley]

For those who have played the afore-mentioned holes as well as the Alps at Stevinson Ranch, how does the one at SR stack up?

I must admit, when I played the one at SR, my architecture background was still in its beginning stages and I thought to myself, what type of BS hole is this.... 

[Tom Huckaby]

For those who have played the afore-mentioned holes as well as the Alps at Stevinson Ranch, how does the one at SR stack up?

I must admit, when I played the one at SR, my architecture background was still in its beginning stages and I thought to myself, what type of BS hole is this.... 

Kalen - the hole at SR is pretty fun....

But it is to these being discussed as I am to Pat Burke in terms of GCA participants' golf ability.

Call that hole a "mini-alps".

 

[TEPaul]

I haven't been there in years now but I recall a hole on Pete Dye's Old Marsh that had a green in front of which Pete built a mini-mountain (for flat swampy South Florida that that course is on). Pete was certainly a student of the other side and if that hole at Old Marsh wasn't a Pete Dye version of the "Alps" what could it have been?

[Chuck Brown]

The Alps at Prestwick is just fun.  It's mysterious.  There is that moment as you walk over the rise to see what you've got.  It's unusual in all of golf.  It's as memorable a hole, in its own way, as I know of in all of links golf.  The challenge, the design, the plan is just full of randomness and wonder.  The hole is an absolute, positive, clear asset to Prestwick as it is.  I would not care to repeat it everywhere, just as I would never repeat TPC Sawgrass -17 everywhere.  For my money, the Alps is a better hole than TPC 17.

Let's review the quote from CB Macdonald that Geoff Shackelford placed on his webpage for today:

"The essence of the game is inequality, as it is in humanity. The conditions which are meted out to the players, such as inequality of the ground, cannot be governed by a green committee with the flying divots of the players or their footprints in the bunkers. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry. Remember that the other fellow has got to meet exactly the same inequalities." 
C.B. MACDONALD

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Paul:

That short par-4 at Old Marsh with the blind pitch was among several built by Mr. Dye in the 1980's.  The first version is at Long Cove, followed by Firethorn and Old Marsh, and there are a few others too I think.

I never asked Pete directly where that idea came from, but I think I remember him saying at one point that it was based on the short par-4 at North Berwick, the 14th hole ... although in plan it is a bit more like the 13th.

P.S.  I like Geoff's quote from Macdonald.  I guess we'll have to make Old Macdonald even more unfair!

[Kyle Henderson]

It seems like a purely penal hole to me. 

There are different kinds of penality. A hole that features concrete pond which require a drop and 1 stroke penalty = monotonous play. A hole that presents a variety of difficult recovery shots can be very compelling.

I can't really speak to the virtues of the original Alps hole, as I've only played the version Harbottle created at Stevinson Ranch (which I greatly enjoy). A central bunker forces one to drive long and left of it (the narrow side) to leave a visible pitch to the green, but at the risk of ending up in the prairie left and long. Short and right is an easy tee shot, but leaves a blind shot over mounding with hidden bunkers just shot of the green, which is very shallow from that angle. Misplaced shots result in numerous predicaments. I call that "strategically penal."

[Anthony Gray]

  The fact that it has remained untouched from the first Open adds mystique. For aficionados of golf history walking in those footsteps is pure joy.

  Anthony

 

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