[Phil McDade]

Carl:

From what I've watched (big caveat -- never been there in person) over the years, Augusta National seems to be full of false fronts. The 9th is the one that probably comes to mind immediately, but don't others there have the feature as well? I was thinking of 10, 15, and one of the par 3s on the front nine.

Also, re. your point on consensus -- it seems that some like subtle false fronts, ala what Tom described in his first post. The big bold ones -- both of the ones I pulled from Milwaukee are really quite large and dramatic -- seem to generate a wider range of opinion. Milwaukee may have a few other modest false fronts, but those two are the ones you notice right away, and are much more prominent than anything else you find on the course. Given that they are on the two shortest par 4s on the course, and players often have wedges in hand on the approaches, I think they work.

Ed -- thanks for the pics!

[Phil Benedict]

Through my reading of this site over the years, I tend to try to discover some kind of basic consensus which I think the last couple of comments have done.  To state that would be to say that the false front is occasionally ok, but do not over do the number or the severity of the device.

With that said, would the 9th green at ANGC be an example of over the top???

I think the 9th at Augusta is over the top; miss it short and your ball rolls a long ways away from the green, leaving a very difficult up and down.  I'm  not sure if I've ever seen anybody get up and down from the bottom of that hill. 

By the same token, severe false fronts can be the ultimate distance control challenges, because there is really no safe play other than to get the distance right.  Being long will typically leave a tough downhill putt on this type of hole.  I like the idea of this type of shot-making challenge once a round or so.  It occurs twice at my home course.

[RJ_Daley]

Phil, you can try to make out the FF on the pics of Crystal Downs on holes 8-9-10-11-17.  The pics on that website don't do them justice as far as how much FF is there.

That brings up the question to TD.  Did Dr. MacKenzie overdo them at CD? 

[Chip Gaskins]

Here are a few pics.

Not sure if a false front is classified a false front if you can pin it.  I don't think you can pin any of these....

[TEPaul]

Personally, I don't think false fronts are being overused nor are they overrated. I agree with Mark Fine, Paul Cowley and some of the others who've defended them and their use.

I do realize that a few modern maintenance applications have vastly increased the function and effectiveness of false fronts---eg faster green speeds and the fact that approaches are now being treated and maintained more like green surfaces (to increase the firmness and bounce and roll-in of approach shots).

I suppose I should also include the fact that restoration projects are picking up old obsoleted greenspace and this very much includes increased greenspace in the old false front areas.

At my course, GMGC, a 1916 Ross, after our restoration project and general green expansions back to original greenspace we now have up to nine greens that have false fronts to one degree of playable effectiveness or another and a few such as the 18th where the ball will come back around 70 yards if the course is playing firm and fast.

I just think that this kind of thing (including our theme of basically uphill approaches and approaches that play longer than the actual yardage) is the primary theme of the golf course and players just need to understand that, get used to it and pull clubs and hit shots accordingly.

I realize the 18th is excessive but my feeling on it that's even in my design evolution report that was written ten years ago is that if golfers have not figured out the theme of our course this way by the time they reach the 18th green (which is significantly uphill with a false front) then the Hell with them and they can just damn well be expected to play a 70 yard approach shot again after having been not quite far enough up on the last green with their previous approach shot!

And definitely don't think I don't know that a number of players of all levels bitch and moan about this, I do know it, I've heard them all and I understand it but, again, I tell them all the very same thing---eg you have fourteen clubs in your bag and next time just learn from your previous experience and pull one more and get the ball farther up on the green than in the past and your ball won't come back off the false front.

To me false fronts are just one of a number of architectural applications of what I call "gravity golf " and frankly I don't think there is much more that's better than "gravity golf" as an architectural and playability interest including basically as some short grass areas being a form of "hazard!" A false front is a really effective form of "gravity golf" short grass hazard and it's clearly strategic to anyone of any level with half a brain and a modicum of observation and concentration.

[John Kirk]

It is my belief that Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw build a significant number of false fronts, not just at the ultra natural Sand Hills, but also at other designs, such as Friar's Head and Old Sandwich.

[Patrick Glynn]

Chip,

The pictures:

16th Pasa
18th Pasa
Ballyneal
5 Augusta
9 Augusta
Merion
Merion
12 SFGC

And I think I have seen the last 2 pictures before but I can not place them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

It is my belief that Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw build a significant number of false fronts, not just at the ultra natural Sand Hills, but also at other designs, such as Friar's Head and Old Sandwich.

John,

Almost every hole at Hidden Creek has a false front of varying degrees.

[paul cowley]

TomP....good post.

False fronts for me fulfill part of my fetish for seeing the ball run across a green surface beyond just sticking and staying....hit here to get there....don't hit here and who knows where....that's the kind of strategic movement that adds fun and challenge to a green surface.

I just built the second of a green series that I call Half Pipes.......skateboarders readily get the picture.


BTW....great photos guys!

[TEPaul]

"TomP....good post."


Why thank you my friend, but, you know what---I wish my wife would say that to me more often. In a moment of passion I may even ask her if she knows what it means!

[TEPaul]

"John,
Almost every hole at Hidden Creek has a false front of varying degrees."

Pat:

You know what, I remember being out there one time when the first green had been shaped and basically floated and either Bill or someone dragged their foot around the left front of it to demark the green edge. I suggested they drag their foot both farther out and lower to create more of a basic fall-off front section in that left front area but I don't believe that happened.

However, contours never look quite the same (not quite as dramatic) when in dirt as compared to in grass so that's probably not much more than their experience and my inexperience at that time.

Thank God you weren't out there at that time because if they'd been dumb enough to even consider listening to you the green probably would've needed to be redesigned inside about a week.

[Mike_Cirba]

Chip,

What an awesome collection of pictures. 

Some of the best and  most devious FF's I've played are 11 at Plainfield, 10 at Maidstone, 10, at Fisher's Island and 4 at Hollywood.

In defense of FF's, I'd say that part of the interesting and fun uncertainty of them is trying to decide exactly how far onto the green it extends.   I find the best ones make this a pretty iffy proposition.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

# 11 at Plainfield is quite exceptional.

This summer I watched dozens of balls hit short of the crest slowly roll back off the green into the rough or fronting bunker.

I also saw golfers putt down toward the hole only to have their balls degreened.

It's diabolical and puts a tremendous premium on choosing the right club and executing properly on a relatively short hole.

TEPaul,

The greens at Hidden Creek are quite challenging and those false fronts can create disappointment, however, the recovery from a rolloff isn't that severe, one shot at most.

[Chip Gaskins]

Chip,

The pictures:
16th Pasa
18th Pasa
Ballyneal
5 Augusta
9 Augusta
Merion
Merion
12 SFGC
And I think I have seen the last 2 pictures before but I can not place them.

Patrick-

Good to hear from you...how is Lahinch this time of year? 

third picture is #2 at Sand Hills
Merion #17
Merion #12
Great job on SFGC #12!
the last two are:
Tobacco Road #18
Pinehurst #2, 1

[Tom_Doak]

It does not seem to have been mentioned much, but the reason some courses (like Augusta) have so many false fronts is that they feature a lot of uphill approach shots where it would otherwise be impossible to see anything of the green surface.  That gets old, too.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I love false fronts, they are great way to make the better player really think about the shot into the green.
Precise yardage is essential and as such good ball strikers get the edge.
Your ability to bomb it becomes a non issue, a much better way of seperating those who can control thier ball than deep rough!
One hole that come to mind, other than those already mentioned is #8 at Garden City, a brutal false front usually into the wind as well.
But that one on #10 at Fishers Island is the false front of them all!

[TEPaul]

Michael W-P:

If a ball takes the false front on #10 Fishers Island how far back down the fairway will it generally come? I can't remember.

For balls coming off a false front and really traveling a distance back down the fairway I don't think I've ever seen greater than #10 at Shinnecock and #18 at my own course, Gulph Mills. In both cases it's in the neighborhood of 75 yards!

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

TP,
Perhaps not qiute as far as those you mentioned, but that is because the rough traps the ball at about 40 yards..but that 40 is quite plausible.
What makes it so terrifying is that over the green is quite simplY DEAD, and misses to either side are almost as severe.
A great hole quickly followed by the Eden par 3 whose green is equally as severe.
What a great course.

[Tom_Doak]

The "false front of all time" was the one on the 11th hole at The Country Club of Charleston ... a long par-3 with a green so severe that pros would commonly lay up, just so the ball wouldn't rocket back off the false front.

I think they've changed it now.

[Kalen Braley]

If we're going to get into the absurd category..

The entire 17th green at Valderamma used to be a false front before they tamed it out a bit IIRC.  I believe it was Tiger who putted it in the water there from above the hole after he just barely touched the ball to get it going.

[RJ_Daley]

Tobacco Road 5 has a much more severe FF than 18 noted above.  I saw Tim Weiman go for the green, hit a beauty, go right to the crest of the FF on the green, and fall about 6 inches short, and come all the way down the hill leaving at least a 35-40 yard pitch back up.  I had sympathy for him, yet also found a twisted excitement in seeing that shot, particularly because I hit iron right on the lay-up and got on in 2 and made par to equal his hard fought par after the deflating roll back.   

[Mark_Fine]

ANY design feature can be overused but it seems to me that some here who don't like "false fronts" seem to think they are for some reason "unfair".  I don't buy it.  False fronts are as Tom Paul stated, a form of a "hazard" and short grass can be a great hazard if we accept it for what it is.  Yes some false fronts might be stupid or maintained goofy (Valderamma can be that way especially when rolling at 13 because then it is really a "false green" more so than a false front).  If for example a false front was on the side of the green (a "false side") would that be unfair as well?  We see that feature (what some call rolloffs) on many golf courses.  Are these features overrated or unfair as well?  Frankly I don't like them when your ball always rolls to the same spot and in a catch basin to boot    There the problem is not the feature but the design/construction.  But these types of green features play an exciting and important role in golf course design (especially if they are NOT overused). 

[TEPaul]

" Frankly I don't like them when your ball always rolls to the same spot and in a catch basin to boot    But these types of green features play an exciting and important role in golf course design (especially if they are NOT overused)."


Mark:

This a very important additional point about things like where balls go after they roll off false fronts or off greens from any side into short grass areas. I think Shinnecock has to deal with this issue on some of their holes that have liberal chipping area. The problem is on some of them the ball will inevitably roll right up against rough collars because the chipping area is not carried far enough out and into some topographical low points of short grass chipping areas.

On the false front on our #18 at GMGC if the ball comes off the green and the fairway is short and fast the ball will somehow find its way every time down that really large fairway area to a very small spot fairway area on the left about 75 yards below the middle of the green that can't be more than about 20 sf. Obviously there is a ton of divots in that area and we are going to have to fix things somehow to spread out where the ball ends up a whole lot more than just that little area.

[JESII]

The "false front of all time" was the one on the 11th hole at The Country Club of Charleston ... a long par-3 with a green so severe that pros would commonly lay up, just so the ball wouldn't rocket back off the false front.

I think they've changed it now.

I hope not. Probably the most unique hole I have played...and it's apparently a template...

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