News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Watertight definitions of hole names
« on: November 04, 2008, 09:54:40 AM »
Biarritz, Cape, Redan, Leven, Road, Eden, Spion Cop and so on. We use the terms frequently on this site. Yet can we construct watertight definitions for each? I seem to recall heated argument about what was or was not a Cape hole on GCA some years ago.

Rich Goodale

Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 10:33:35 AM »
I doubt it, Mark, even though we try, from time to time.....

John Kavanaugh

Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 10:36:57 AM »
I refer to the Bahto interviews on this site when confused.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 10:46:01 AM »
I refer to the Bahto interviews on this site when confused.

George Bahto, with the editing assistance of Gib Papazian, wrote "The Evangelist of Golf" about CB MacDonald nails the template holes with diagrams and photos of most all the MacD/Raynor courses.  It's an incredible book, everybody should have a copy in their GCA library.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 10:46:52 AM »
I would say "The Island Hole" is the only candidate...no, seriously...

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 11:04:18 AM »
I like the name "watertight".  Someone define that hole and I'll build just to say "Watertight"!!

Lester

Phil_the_Author

Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 11:14:59 AM »
Recently I was asked by an architect to help him understand the original design of a golf course that Tilly did. In addition to changes over the years made by others, the clubhouse suffered a fire in the 1940's which destroyed almost all of the original documents, drawings, etc...

In helping them to reconstruct what he created, I included the following hole definitions from his 1916 booklet "Planning a Golf Course." I find it gives a fascinating peak into the way he thought as he approached a new course design: 

      “This brings up a rather fine point – what is the difference between a dog-leg and an elbow? As a rule, the two terms are used indiscriminately, but I always have made this distinction. A dog-leg provides some pronounced obstruction, which forms a corner in a twisted fairway from either side. If it be impossible to carry over this obstruction, but at the same time necessary to get beyond it in order to open up the next shot, we have a Dog-leg…
      “If a similar obstruction may be carried by a courageous shot, which is rewarded by a very distinct advantage, we have an Elbow…
      “There is still a third variation, where a corner is formed close by a green itself, usually by the encroachment of a hillside or sandy waste, and this is known as a Cape hole…     

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 11:34:32 AM »
Philip, Thanks for that. Just goes to show what a viper's nest it all is!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 12:03:10 PM »
Philip, Thanks for that. Just goes to show what a viper's nest it all is!

Maybe that's what golf needs: more "Viper's Nest" holes.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Rich Goodale

Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 01:15:31 PM »
Philip, Thanks for that. Just goes to show what a viper's nest it all is!

Maybe that's what golf needs: more "Viper's Nest" holes.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37209.0.html

Dan

That 2nd picture in Joe Bausch's post cited above comes to mind

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Watertight definitions of hole names
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 01:45:44 PM »
"Home" = the 18th.   ;D