Anyone know Bellrive? Any photos?

[Dean Stokes]

The tour stops this week at Bellrive. I know little or nothing about it. Last week however, I spoke with  one of the tour caddies who was there last time the event was cancelled.

He had walked the course to do some yardages, I believe they had played a practise round and he said it was a fabulous golf course. One he couldn't wait to get back to.

Anybody?

[John Kavanaugh]

A link from pgatour.com http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/r028/course.html

I will be out of the GCA loop by saying that it is a fabulous course and a blast to play.  I really feel for all my buds that were so excited for the start of the tournament only to get Gustaved today.  The weather does look great for the rest of the weekend and it will be interesting to see how they work through the 72 hole format.

[Steve Pozaric]

Revised Schedule:

18 holes Friday
36 Saturday (7 am start) and
18 Sunday.

Thursday's tickets will be honored for either Saturday or Sunday.

Most of the rain **seems** to be over now.

One of my partners got an ace yesterday in the pro-am.  Another friend played with Phil M - said it was awesome!!

[PCCraig]

It really is a shame that the storm had to come on the first day like this. I was at Bellerive this past Friday night for a BMW Member Kick-off event and walked a bit of the course, it looked like it was in just unreal shape. The 18th green almost looked fake it looked so good!

I have had the chance to play the course a good amount now and am a big fan of it. The back nine is about as underrated a nine holes in the country...just a great pace and flow throughout.

I will be interested to see what the Pros shoot out there...when I was there the rough looked to be about 3" long and with all this rain the course is going to play about 7,500 yards long. However the wet conditions will allow people to hold greens.

Does anyone have any predictions as to how they will handle the course? From everything I have read every pro, including Tiger, was excited to play the course and enjoyed it in their practice rounds.

[Brian Noser]

The course looked to be in great shape on Monday before the rains. from what i heard many of the pros were excited to play the course and I believe sergio shot like 65 in the Pro-Am does not mean much considering no pressure(cough.. Choker.. cough) but that is another thread. I am looking forward to what they all will say after all the rain. It is currently still raining here and has been since about 8:00 last night at times very hard. Any way ask for pics and you shale receive..

Jb on the range.




Padraig on the range fighting a big old hook....



now to the important items in just random order

#9



#6 I think



#5 ??



#11



#16



#18

[Adam Clayman]

Maintenance presentations makes me think...Painter of light.
 This standard is becoming so Thomas Kincaid.

Was is it you all like about this look?

[John Kavanaugh]

Maintenance presentations makes me think...Painter of light.
 This standard is becoming so Thomas Kincaid.

Was is it you all like about this look?

Adam,

You need a chill pill for your homeriteus.  Ballyneal would look stupid in this suburb of St. Louis. 

[Adam Clayman]

It has nothing to do with homerism.

I want to hear a practical justification for this ambiguous look/presentation?

   The player whose ball has found the rough has not a lie to make a direct attack upon them. He must content himself with a negative shot. Therefore the penal idea that makes a virtue of rough with its penal bunkers, robs nature, the opponent, of deploying herself strategically. And that simply means intelligently.

MAX BEHR

[Jim Nugent]

Amazes me to see all those trees.  Don't say that as a good or bad thing, just that when I last saw the course -- 1970 -- it was nearly wide open. 

A few corrections to the photo labels, if my memory from back then is right:

#6 at Bellerive is a par 3, with a little pond on the front right.  Perhaps your photo is #7?  btw I think I saw Jack Nicklaus top a drive during a practice round on #7 in the 1965 U.S. Open. 

#5:  I think you pictured #3, which is another par 3 over a pond. 

[Steve Pozaric]

It has nothing to do with homerism.

I want to hear a practical justification for this ambiguous look/presentation?

Adam: 

Not sure what you mean about "ambiguous look/presentation".  Could you explain?

[Brian Noser]

Sorry My number 5 is actually #6, there is a little lake right front you just have to look hard.....and my # 6 is actually #7

[Adam Clayman]

Sure, It's ambiguous because the rough surrounding the bunkers reduces their effectiveness. Especially the gathering type of bunker and/or green side. Case in point, High Pointe's Par 5 6th(?) has some perfectly placed bunkers that come into play on most people's second shot. Their presentation is as the Pix above. With ten yards of rough grass between the fairway and bunker edge, only on a firm surface, with less than lush rough, does a rolling ball have a chance to enter the strategically placed bunker. That's one reason why I view this presentation as ambiguous. Superfluous, or, otiose may be better words.

I've heard people say they like the contrast of color. I just never heard why they like it. To me the form over function argument when discussing strategically placed hazards should always be won by function.

I like to call this presentation standard crappolla, or, the Westchester County look. It makes me gag because of how unintelligent it is without firmer surfaces and whispier rough conditions.

Speaking of Homerism, Isn't Victoria National presented in this manner?

[Dean Stokes]

Adam, I couldn't agree more with you and try to make this point as often as I can.

You look at the bunker at the back of #16 - that bank should be shaved for balls to run into. There should be no rough around bunkers at the point where a ball can enter them.

The stratergy of the bunker positions is taken away by terrible course set up ( that does not mean the course is bad!).

I have some great photos of Seminole this Winter and I deliberately took photos of the bunkers to show how they should be mowed around to make them effective and in play. When I try to put them in the message I am told they have too much of whatever pictures contain! I do not know how to downsize them to show them here.

[Steve Pozaric]

Thanks.  Superfluous I understand.  Afterall, how many times have we heard the refrain on this board that bunkers really aren't hazards for the pros any more.  Deep, greenside rough is probably more of a "hazard" for them.

[tlavin]

Looks great!

[Adam Clayman]

  Deep, greenside rough is probably more of a "hazard" for them.

This too is likely not the case, a misnomer in fact. The best green side maintenance hazard for the pro is short grass. Taking their ball farther away from the hole after a less than considered shot.

[Mike_Cirba]

Oh My God...I've seen those bunkers before!!!   

Wait...don't tell me!   I'll get it...

Umm...could it be.

Uhh....   

[Tim_Cronin]

Play is underway here at Bellerive. Lift, clean and place. As of 11:38 a.m., Anthony Kim is 2-under through 2, leading Padraig Harrington, Jerry Kelly and Geoff Ogilvy. About half the field (of 69) has yet to tee off.

[Jim Nugent]

I've heard people say they like the contrast of color. I just never heard why they like it. To me the form over function argument when discussing strategically placed hazards should always be won by function.

I have this crazy memory, that I'm not sure is true.  During the 1965 U.S. Open at Bellerive, a few members took it upon themselves to dye some of the last few fairways a bright green.  They said they wanted their course to look great on national (color) TV.

Does anyone know if this actually happened?  

[Tim_Cronin]

Jim, I think it was the 17th and 18th fairways. That was the first color telecast of the U.S. Open and a couple of guys thought the fairways weren't green enough for NBC, which had covered the Open in black-and-white from 1949 through 1964. So they rigged up a sprayer with cans of green paint and went at it sometime during tournament week. I'm told it looked like the Chicago River on St. Patrick's Day.

[PCCraig]

The first two holes are pretty easy, it gets a little more interesting on #3 which from the tips is a 180 yard par-3 to a small green and #4 which is like 510 par-4 (A par-5 for members) and #6 a really hard par 3.

[PCCraig]

Scores are holding up pretty well considering the greens are soft. You would have to imagine if the course was firm scores would be closer to par.

[Tim_Cronin]

Scoring average 69.725, just under par on a day when lift, clean and cheat was in use on fairways, and three tees (3rd, 10th and 16th) were moved up significantly. The course played 7,294 yards rather than the listed 7,386.
If anyone cares, I've posted a game story, column and notes on my blog.360.yahoo.com site, "Inside Chicago Golf." Type in those words at the bottom of the home screen and the page should pop up.

[PCCraig]

Tim--

What is the exact Web URL for your blog?