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Greg Clark

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New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« on: August 22, 2008, 06:11:52 PM »
Anyone know more about this?  This will be the 3rd fairly new private club in this growing area north of Dallas.  D.A. Weibring's locally well received Gentle Creek is close by, and Weiskopf's TPC Craig Ranch (site of this year's Nationwide Tour championship) is near as well.  Just down the road is the soon to be opened (10/4) Bridges at Preston Crossing by Jeff Brauer.  I believe the developers hope that course becomes private at some point.  The under-rated Stonebridge Ranch Country Club (very solid Dye course and decent Art Hills 27) is a more established private club also in the area.

Typically hyperbole on the press release.  I hadn't heard about this development and was wondering if any of our resident architects had been out to see the land, or if anyone had any more info.  This is close by to my locale so I'm curious.


12:00 AM CDT on Friday, August 22, 2008
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com

Golfing legend Jack Nicklaus is teaming up with a prominent local developer to create a state-of-the-art golf course in Collin County.

Longtime developer and homebuilder Jim Williams Jr. is building the golf course as the centerpiece of a planned residential and commercial community on U.S. Highway 380 in Prosper.

Work on the 225-acre BearsBrook golf course designed by Mr. Nicklaus is set to begin next year.

"We are stepping out and doing the golf course first," said Mr. Williams, who is president of Frisco-based LandPlan Development Co. "This is a big step for us.

"We want this to be the best member-owned golf club in North Texas."

LandPlan executive vice president Scott Erwin said the developers are already recruiting members for the golf club, which is to open in 2010.

The development site includes two creeks, a lake and has areas that are heavily wooded. "The terrain is what makes this property great for a golf course," Mr. Erwin said.

Mr. Nicklaus has been working on the project since touring the site earlier this year.

"This is a beautiful piece of property," he said in a statement. "It is going to be a very special project, and we are delighted to be a part of it."

Plans are for the Prosper project to become one of Nicklaus Design's signature golf courses, which now include about two dozen properties around the world.

Altogether, LandPlan owns about 1,400 acres in the area at U.S. 380 and Custer Road.

"I bought the first land out there in 1990," Mr. Williams said. "I could see that when the Dallas North Tollway got built to U.S. 380 that development in this area would happen."

After the golf course is built, LandPlan hopes to build three gated residential communities and commercial development on the property it owns.

"I've never announced a project that I wasn't going to build," Mr. Williams said.

He has more than 30 years of experience in the North Texas real estate market, doing projects that include Caruth Homeplace in North Dallas and – currently – the Chapel Creek residential community in Frisco.

The one-time University of Arkansas football star also builds medical office buildings and retail centers.

Prosper city officials are enthusiastic about the planned Nicklaus golf course. The Collin County town is expected to be one of the fastest growing of Dallas' northern suburbs in the years ahead. Several large mixed-use developments are planned.

"We have some really good golf courses scattered around the Dallas-Fort Worth area, but I don't think they compare to this one," said Prosper Mayor Charles Niswanger. "It will be the nicest golf course, I think, in the state.

"I hope to see a PGA tournament played on it some day."

Prosper currently has one golf course, the Gentle Creek Golf Club, which opened in 2002. That facility has more than 300 members.

Nicklaus Design is considered one of the world's top golf course planning firms and has worked in 32 countries.

Greg Clark

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2008, 11:37:11 AM »
Thought I'd give this another chance at the start of the week to see if anyone had any info on this.  I drove by the area this course will be built on, and it does look like it has possibilities.  I'm not sure of the specific couse site, but the general area does have quite a bit of trees that likely will need to be cleared.  There does appear to be above average elevation changes and movement in the land for the region. 

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 12:06:24 PM »
Greg,

That project had been rumored for a long time, with the names most often heard for the design Fazio and Doak, so JN getting in there is a bit of a surprise, at least to me.  Maybe not to them. ;)  I made a few inquires, but Land Plan wasn't interested in me at all..... :-\

I have seen the land, and it doesn't look a lot different than most of the N Texas prairie in that area.  But, Land Plan usually spends the money to make things right. 

North Dallas keeps growing.  This is in the upscale corridor, no doubt, and I have heard that the private market in N Dallas isn't all that bad.  It should do pretty well after the market turns around, and its timing might be perfect.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Greg Clark

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 01:39:52 PM »
Thanks for the reply Jeff.  While driving by the area I decided to head up north and take a peek at The Bridges at Preston Crossing.  It was a little farther north than I thought.  Looks like they have sold a reasonable amount of lots out there.  I caught a glance at about 5 or 6 holes while there.  Rolling prarie land with out a lot of trees for sure.  I look forward to playing it once it opens.

If Mr. Doak was involved in the selection process for the Land Plan development I would love to read his thoughts on the land and potential of the site.  Tom?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 07:03:59 PM »
Greg:

I've just heard from John Kavanaugh that I am not supposed to comment on jobs I didn't get for fear of damning them with faint praise.  It was a very nice site and I am sorry we didn't get to build on it.

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 07:59:49 PM »
Tom,

Thanks for responding.  I guess the by product of a Kavanaugh rant is muted thoughts on the N. Texas property.  Glad to hear you thought it was very nice.  While I have rather liked the few Nicklaus courses I have played on, it is extremely disappointing to learn that there may have been a Doak offering close to my abode, and that chance was missed.  What a tremendous bummer.  I hope you build one in the area soon.

mike_beene

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 11:29:58 PM »
Greg,I think Gentle Creek is very good.Other than the houses,most on this site would love the width,ground game and firmness. It is boom town out there.When I was a kid in the late 60s my area Preston Hollow(Preston and Northwest Highway) seemed way north.It is 30 miles from my house to Prosper.Think how that will boom if they get commercial air service in McKinney.This club should have no problem.

John Kavanaugh

Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2008, 11:44:08 PM »
Greg,

There are two or three Nicklaus associates that post on this site.  Perhaps when you get over being bummed they will be kind enough to fill you in.

Greg Tallman

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2008, 11:55:02 PM »
Greg:

I've just heard from John Kavanaugh that I am not supposed to comment on jobs I didn't get for fear of damning them with faint praise.  It was a very nice site and I am sorry we didn't get to build on it.

LOL

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 02:55:53 AM »
John,

As I mentioned in one of my posts I am not a anti Nicklaus guy.  He's a boyhood idol of mine and I have enjoyed the few courses I have played.  The Bull at Pinehurst Farms doesn't get near enough love on this site in my view.  Whispering Pines here in Texas is great, but I'm not sure how much work Jack did there.  The course at Lake Las Vegas was over-priced but solid.

I would love to hear some comments from his associates on the property.  I'm sure they will do a great job and the Nicklaus name will sell houses.  The fact that I think Doak is the better architect doesn't mean I think Nicklaus Design is no good.  I think they are excellent.  I am anxious to see what they do, and I am likely going to be very interested in membership if they produce something outstanding.   I would rather Doak work on the land because his batting percentage is higher in my view and it is much more unique to have one of his courses in your area.  But thanks for the comment anyway.  I'm glad it gave Greg Tallman a laugh.

Mike,

Have you been out and played the Dye course at Stonebridge Ranch since Perry Dye renovated the course last year.  Lot's of water there and they get carried away with the rough at times, but I was pretty impressed with the course.  Some bad quirk, but mostly good quirk.  I agree on Gentle Creek.  Lots of fun to play.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 08:37:11 AM »
Greg:

I've just heard from John Kavanaugh that I am not supposed to comment on jobs I didn't get for fear of damning them with faint praise.  It was a very nice site and I am sorry we didn't get to build on it.

Of course, had you gotten the job, you would have been obligated to call it the best site you've ever seen for golf, no?  Of all gca's, I would think you would have the hardest time using that as a selling point...... ;D
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

JWL

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Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 11:32:24 PM »
Just FYI

I am going on a site visit tomorrow.   Jack has been on the site and we have worked out a terrific routing.
Now, we are beginning the process of fine tuning and doing whatever possible to minimize the impact of "waters of the US" on the design.
I believe the property topography is considerably different from most that is found north of Dallas, which is generally very flat.  It is gently rolling terrain with a very attractive stream with steep bluffs running through the center of the property.   The golf course will be a core with homesite set back a considerable distance from the golf corridors, similar to the Spring Creek Ranch course in Collierville, Tn, if anyone is familiar with that course.

We are Nicklaus Design are excited about this opportunity, and since it is in my "neighborhood", I am within driving distance to the site, and I expect to spend considerable time on site during the design/construction process.   That is all I have to offer at this point.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 11:47:26 PM »
JWL,in the tradition of Dallas golf,find a way to make this a par 71.Most of the old courses here are and it would be a nice way to get the second club market.71s:Northwood,Lakewood,Royal Oaks,Brook Hollow,Preston Trail,Shady Oaks,old Tennison West,Oak Cliff? to name a few.

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2008, 06:32:47 PM »
Thanks for the insight JWL.  Great to again have confirmed that the property holds promise.  It would be great to get periodic updates on how things are progressing and your commentary on what the lay out is looking like.  Best wishes on the project.

Tim Copeland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 07:38:17 PM »
Greg:

I've just heard from John Kavanaugh that I am not supposed to comment on jobs I didn't get for fear of damning them with faint praise.  It was a very nice site and I am sorry we didn't get to build on it.

Just do not under any circumstances make any blanket statements that could possibly be construed as covering all superintendents.......you should be fine then.
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 07:47:05 PM »


Just do not under any circumstances make any blanket statements that could possibly be construed as covering all superintendents.......you should be fine then.

[/quote]

Still bitter......
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tim Copeland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Nickalus Design course in Dallas area announced
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 08:14:19 PM »


Just do not under any circumstances make any blanket statements that could possibly be construed as covering all superintendents.......you should be fine then.


Still bitter......
[/quote]


Bitter?!?!?!  Never.........

Still pissed that something I said in PM was posted here??....you damn right I am
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

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