Golf Hole Analysis -- Killorglin Golf Club #16

[Ian_L]

I've wanted to discuss this hole for a while, but haven't found the place to do so until now.  I was fortunate enough to play a few courses in the west of Ireland last summer (Killorglin, Dooks, Donegal Murvah, Narin & Portnoo, Enniscrone, Carne, Achill Island, Connemara, Lahinch).  As our "warm-up round," we played Killorglin Golf Club in Co. Kerry.  Overall the course was nothing to write home about, but the 16th hole caught my attention.  Unfortunately I took no pictures and couldn't find any online, so I've drawn the hole out from memory (has anyone else played this hole?).  Anyway, here's the diagram:




Here are a few reasons why I found this hole different and interesting.  Please keep in mind I haven't played a ton of courses, so what's new to me may be old news to most of you:

1. Multiple fairways.  I know there are many cases of holes with two routes, but this one is interesting in that the shorter route is cut off 230 yards from the tee, rather than the typical long carry for the shorter fairway.  For many players, a driver down the left will leave the same distance to the green as a fairway wood  or long iron down the right.  For the short hitter, the question is whether to accept pitching his/her third shot onto the green, or risking a narrow fairway and a carry over the out of bounds.

2.  The tall O.B. fence can create an interesting situation if a drive down the right fairway goes a bit too far (an unplayable or a pitch backwards would be the most likely outcome).

3. The long rough on the right puts the OB into play on the second shot.  From the fairway, only a mishit ball will find the quarry.  If the tee shot finds the right rough, however, the golfer must choose to go for the green with OB short and right, pitch out to the right fairway, or cut over the tree or OB to the left fairway for a shorter 3rd shot at the green.

4.  The lone tree on the hole protects the player who chooses the left fairway from hitting OB, but also forces him to aim farther left to avoid being stymied on his approach shot.  It also prevents golfers from aiming for the short rough between the two fairways for the shortest line to the hole.

5. The green angle is interesting; it seems to me to favor a shot from the right fairway, but I'm not sure.


I'm interested in hearing your opinions on this hole.  Is it a good hole?  Too much OB for your taste?  Could it be improved?  Which line do you think would be taken more often?  If you have any further questions on the anatomy of the hole, I'll answer them to the best of my memory.  Also, I'd be happy to take suggestions on how to make my drawing or future drawings better.

Thanks,

Ian

[Matt_Cohn]

Is the green blind from either fairway?

[Ian_L]

As I remember it it's more visible from the right side.  From the left the mounds short of the green obscure a good part of the surface (the flag will always be visible, however).

[Jason McNamara]

Not knowing how wide that R side fairway is, seems like medium risk for not a lot of reward.  Depending on how big those greenside mounds are, I'd probably prefer the regular fwy.  Maybe it's the green being at a 45-degree angle to that R side.

One question:   Prevailing wind?  If it's considerably into me that's probably another reason for me to play left.  Yeah it's longer, but it's more likely to take the stupid numbers out of play.   If I slightly miss a lay-up on the R into the wind, then I may be looking at a longer iron and starting to think about that fence.  (You didn't indicate anything regarding how difficult a greenside up & down would be.)

After a few others have posted some conjecture/opinions, I'd like to hear how your group handled the hole, esp. if your paths diverged.

Btw, I found this map, which doesn't add much - but does that bunker on 15 also affect 16?
http://www.killorglingolf.ie/killorglin_golf_club_course_map.pdf

Oh, and is the extra fairway original, or was one of the club captains semi-short off the tee but deadly accurate?   

Anyway, cool exercise for the peanut gallery.  Thanks, Ian.

[Ian_L]

To answer your questions, Jason:

I would say the right fairway is only 20-25 yards wide, but the rough on most of the course is very short.  The golfer has 5-8 yards to work with on the right before getting into the weeds, and maybe 15 on the left before being under the tree.  So you've got about 40-45 yards to work with.  If you're outside that, though, you'll have a tough shot to get near the green in two.  I can't remember how big the mounds were, but I'd say no more than 3 feet high.

There was little to no wind the day I played the course.  I would suspect the wind comes off the ocean (helping the golfer on this hole), especially considering the course is on a hillside facing Dingle Bay.

The rough is short on the course, so an up and down shouldn't be too challenging, unless you're behind the mounds.  One great thing about the course is that they've mowed the area around the greens to fairway height, which let to a few interesting chip shots.

The bunker on 15 is nowhere near the 16th fairway.  There are a few small trees between the holes, but I don't remember them affecting play on the 16th hole. 

I have no idea whether Eddie Hackett put that fairway into his plans.  It is safe to say that O.B. was always there.

As you said, I'd guess the right fairway would most favor the player who hits his/her driver between 195 and 215 yards and is consistent enough to confidently hit two straight, solid shots.  Short (less than 190 off the tee), long, and inaccurate hitters would appear to benefit more from taking the left.

[Ian_L]

I'll go ahead and tell you how we did since the thread has faded.

My playing partner is very short off the tee, so he took the left side.  I don't quite recall his shots, but he ended up with a 6 (normal for him).  I aimed for the left fairway but somehow sliced the ball all the way into the long grass on the right.  From there I foolishly flailed at the green and ended up O.B.  I got a favorable drop, put my 4th on the green, and 3-putted for a lovely triple bogey (I'm usually not *quite* this bad).

I'd be interested in more opinions on this hole.  Personally, I thought it was interesting, and a welcome change on a rather uninspiring course (although it does have a couple good holes up on the hill).  I wouldn't go as far as to label this a great hole, though.

[Ian_L]

Also, I forgot to ask... for those interested, do you think the hole would play better if the OB were instead a water hazard?  I usually detest OB on most every hole, so I would say yes.  But it does provide for more intrigue with the stiff penalty and the jagged edges of the boundary.

[Jason McNamara]

A different suggestion:

What if the green were aligned square with the right-side fairway, and a pot bunker put in greenside L (where it would be seen from the L fairway, but blocked by the tree from the R fairway)?

If playing R got me a better look at the green *and* helped me avoid a nasty greenside bunker, then I might look R off the tee.   Otherwise, I guess I still don't see it, whether the hazard is water or OB. 

I also note that the back nine there seems to have a lot of half-par holes, so it wouldn't seem this is the only "match play" hole on the course.