[John Mayhugh]

Some places would only need to add three clocks.....


Seriously, I think the distribution of prime times to faster groups makes some sense, but just can't visualize the need to post clocks around the course at a decent club.

[Chris Cupit]

Everyone,

I understand the pros and cons of this pace system and while I wish I could do it a little differently, this system has worked at my specific club.  I played at Merion last year and the host simply said on #1 tee, "guys, we have to play in 4 hours or I get a letter".  Enough said, but my club is not Merion.

My club is an inexpensive, private club and I am proud to say it is the first club many of my members have ever joined.  In effect, for many members I am a transitional club and I have more members than many private clubs who are relatively new to golf or who did not grow up in a "country club lifestyle" where they were exposed to how to act on a golf course.  I also host a Rules and Etiquette class that covers basic rules situations, how to fix ball marks, enter and exit bunkers, rake bunkers--lot's of stuff taken for granted at most private clubs.  We have had about 75 people at the last two classes.

I certainly understand that to some this is a bit over the top but it works and if you come and play my course on a Saturday or Sunday morning you will most likely play in 3 hours and 55 minutes.  I can promise you that most golfers are not aware of their pace.  If you ask each group how long it took them to play EVERYONE will say "4 hours" and it's BS.  The clocks eliminate that doubt. 

I wish I didn't have to have any system, I wish golfers knew enough to play in a good time.  But, I think there are lots of trade offs as all clubs do things a little different than others.  One example--not 5 miles away as a crow flies is a course that has hosed major championships and cost $80,000 to join and with 2000 members you take your chances with a lottery system for tee times each weekend.  You write down the course you want to play and the 2 hour time period you want and then cross your fingers.  I've never had to do that and I'd rather have clocks than a tee time lottery.  There is give and take with all clubs.

A.G.  I'll check on the sand--it was a little hard to find--it's not just "river sand" and I can get you the specs.  What did you shoot?  I hope John didn't take your money!

J. Sweeney-- I was suppose to be at Camargo today but had a situation that I had to take care of at home--wife comes first

[DMoriarty]

Everyone,

I understand the pros and cons of this pace system and while I wish I could do it a little differently, this system has worked at my specific club.  I played at Merion last year and the host simply said on #1 tee, "guys, we have to play in 4 hours or I get a letter".  Enough said, but my club is not Merion.

My club is an inexpensive, private club and I am proud to say it is the first club many of my members have ever joined.  In effect, for many members I am a transitional club and I have more members than many private clubs who are relatively new to golf or who did not grow up in a "country club lifestyle" where they were exposed to how to act on a golf course.  I also host a Rules and Etiquette class that covers basic rules situations, how to fix ball marks, enter and exit bunkers, rake bunkers--lot's of stuff taken for granted at most private clubs.  We have had about 75 people at the last two classes.

I certainly understand that to some this is a bit over the top but it works and if you come and play my course on a Saturday or Sunday morning you will most likely play in 3 hours and 55 minutes.  I can promise you that most golfers are not aware of their pace.  If you ask each group how long it took them to play EVERYONE will say "4 hours" and it's BS.  The clocks eliminate that doubt. 

I wish I didn't have to have any system, I wish golfers knew enough to play in a good time.  But, I think there are lots of trade offs as all clubs do things a little different than others.  One example--not 5 miles away as a crow flies is a course that has hosed major championships and cost $80,000 to join and with 2000 members you take your chances with a lottery system for tee times each weekend.  You write down the course you want to play and the 2 hour time period you want and then cross your fingers.  I've never had to do that and I'd rather have clocks than a tee time lottery.  There is give and take with all clubs.

A.G.  I'll check on the sand--it was a little hard to find--it's not just "river sand" and I can get you the specs.  What did you shoot?  I hope John didn't take your money!

J. Sweeney-- I was suppose to be at Camargo today but had a situation that I had to take care of at home--wife comes first

Chris, as I said on the other thread, I think it is terrific that you have actually tried something and that it seems to be working well at your club.  This to me is an infinitely better approach than rolling over and playing dead, which is what it seems many places have done.    Perhaps others will catch on and try your system or one similar and then we could have a real discussion comparing and contrasting what is necessary and what works best, or doesn't.  But as it is, you appear to be one of the only ones doing anything, and notwithstanding our nitpicking you deserve thanks and congratulations. 

[Chuck Brown]

This is just another example of information pollution.  It is more grease on the slippery slope that will eventually make golf indistinguishable from video games.

As always, John, I'm sure make an excellent point here, or you wouldn't have taken the time to post.  And, as always, I have no earthly idea what you mean, even after taking the time to read it twice.

Let me know when you find something you like; it would be refreshing.

AG,

Please name one rule, sign or electronic gadget that is needed to enjoy a round of golf if you are a member of a club full of like minded courteous respectful golfers.  I like a nice quiet day free of information pollution and artificial standards of etiquette.

Answer: absolutely none.  We wouldn't even be talking about this as a problem if all the world's golf courses were "clubs...full of like minded courteous golfers."  There'd be no problem.

The issue is how to deal with the inconsiderate, the ignorant, the unaware and the uninformed...

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G.  I'll check on the sand--it was a little hard to find--it's not just "river sand" and I can get you the specs.  What did you shoot?  I hope John didn't take your money!

I shot 84; only missed one fairway, but didn't hit irons well at all.  John was a huge help in telling me where to miss on the greens, and without that and at a different green speed, my number would have been a LOT higher.

I might be the worst green reader in the history of the game, and there is a bunch of way cool reading to be done on your greens.  On #8 and #9 alone I had putts that I still can't understand, but they did exactly what John said they would.  The Mid-Am qualifier should be interesting.

On the other hand, I doubt I'd play the back tees again, so maybe I'd be o.k.  I hit my max-out best drive on #18, and had 226 left; that's out of my league and I know it.  I need to play in the 6500-6700 range; more than that and things go south in a hurry.

John is a great guy, and I really miss him.  He has played with my regular Sunday afternoon group a lot over the last few years, and AAC made a mistake in not working hard to keep him.  He was kind of a "Minister of Joy"; knew everybody, talked to everybody, made everybody laugh, etc.  Great out-front guy at a club...

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