UPI's Top 20 Living Golf Architects?

[Slag_Bandoon]

The dead guys are resurrected every time I play their courses.  Hallelujah!

OTM, I see you made the move back to Prestwick.  

[Chris Kane]

jg7236

9.  Thomson Wolveridge and Perett
10. Coore and Crenshaw

Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore designed what is arguably the best modern golf course in the world.  What have TWP done to earn themselves a position above C&C?

There are some glaring omissions, such as Tom Doak (will he have to design another course as good as Pacific Dunes to make your list)

[username2]

jg7236,

What do you have against Tom Doak? Or do you think guys like John Fought and Graham Marsh have just done better work than he has?

[jg7236]

I think Tom Doak does great work, I have heard a lot about him through all you guys, but I don't know enough about him compared to the people on my list.  I am just a young inspiring to be golf course architect.  

[Chris Kane]

jg7236,

Again, what earnt TWP 9th place?

[TJSturges]

I had hoped this post would spark some debate, which obviously it has.  I also had hoped it would allow for some of the lesser known, but very talented architects to win some well deserved praise.  In sports (NCAA basketball was my example) sometimes the lesser known but very talented teams can compete and sometimes knock off the big boys.  I've always been one to root for the underdog.  It seems that in the golf business, the little guys don't get as many chances to compete and win the big ones.  That was one of the reasons for my post.

Some names I obviously forgot:

Kidd (I've only played his course at BD)
Fry and Hurdzan
Jeff Brauer
Richard Mandell

I have not played any courses by Brauer or Mandell, thus the omissions.  Just forgot to include Fry and Hurdzan and Kidd.  I look forward to seeing other names I failed to include.  This will serve to provide many of us with a new list for people's work to seek out, and it may elevate their names in the golf business.

To BV:

You may wish to schedule some additional sessions with Dr. Katz.  Your anger management sessions with Coach Knight might not have been as effective as one may have hoped.  Also, your point about "who is guaranteed to make you money" is a good one.  Part of the reason for my post was to get past the mad rush to make money at the expense of decent architecture.  The mindset you apparently have is exactly what I hoped this thread would expose as the prevailing (unfortunate) mindset.  

TS

[BV]

Ted, denial is not a river.   This is how the game works, independent of what a few of us think of the talents of certain architects.  Wishing won't make it better.

And there is no "media machine".  Sorry.

No personal attacks, please.

And Katz is not a real Psychiatrist.

[TEPaul]

Katz is better than a real pyschiatrist! He's as good as the best pyschoanalyst--he's the incomparable Dr. Katz--the world's expert on soothing the emotional trauma and even curing the tic douloureux of those who are striving to believe they can understand the complexities of golf architecture but of course subliminally fear they never will!

[jg7236]

Mr. Kane, my fault, you must have all the authority on golf course architects world wide since you live in Australia, next time when I list my top 20 I will make sure I ask you first before I post, g'day!

[Danny Goss]

jg7236 I think Chris Kane asks a reasonable question and you have given an unreasonable reply. After all you put your list up on this site and have given TWP a top 10 ranking.
If you do not wish to reply to Chris maybe you can tell the rest of us what courses TWP have done that are obviously "right up there" to deserve a top ten ranking.

[Chris Kane]

jg7236,

My interest in the ranking is not  TWP at 9th place, but rather, TWP being placed ahead of Crenshaw and Coore.

I'm not trying to interegate you - I'm interested in what you based that decision on.  There has to be a reason for you ranking them ahead of C&C, Doak and co.  

Please just answer the question.  Again, to reiterate my point - C&C have designed a course ranked among the world's top 25 courses.  TWP have a couple of courses that would very generously be placed in Australia's top 15.  There is a huge discrepency there.

[Mike_Cirba]

jg;

I thought Chris asked a legitimate question, as well, so I don't understand your defensive attitude.  

It's all well and good to put out a controversial post, but please be prepared to defend your assertions.  For instance, I'd be inclined to ask you what courses Ed Seay has designed that you enjoy, or that puts him higher in your opinion than, say Keith Foster, or Jeff Brauer for discussion purposes, but if you viewed that question as some type of personal affront, then we'd just be better off not having the discussion.

And, what's the fun in that?  

[jg7236]

Sorry for being defensive, had a long day at work, didn't mean to take it out on you Chris.  Will get back to the discussion soon, but I have to go to bed now, take care.

[Tom_Egan]

Tom Paul --

Well stated remarks about Dr. Katz.  He's much needed in a number of the current active threads, and has been absent for far too long.  

Maybe we should deputize a posse to find and return him to his arduous chores here.

[TJSturges]

To:  BV

"There is no media machine....sorry"?   Huh?

Do you really think the American golfing public pays no attention to the GD and Golf Top 100 ratings?  You really can't be serious about that one, can you?

And you wish to tell me that denial is not a river?  

Calling Dr. Katz....        Calling Dr. Katz.....     We have a code  blue.....

[Richard Chamberlain]

Tom E

Maybe we could get hold of Nurse Ratchett to deputise for Katz when he's out of the building.

Gentlemen...it's medication time...
...and can we get that great psyche ward music from Cuckoo's Nest to play in the background of this web forum ?

[ian]

jg7236,

Have you played all those architects courses? I would be curious to know how many of each courses of each architect.
Like any list, you have a couple of head scratchers, and I would like to know the basis of your judgement.

[jg7236]

To all I have played a descent amount of them.  I am a young inspiring to be golf course architect.  My top 20 was of course derived from architects I feel do fantastic design work, courses I enjoyed my round of golf on, architects I have heavily studied, and architects that I have kept in contact with. Who have taken time out of their busy schedules to answer all my questions, call me back or even schedule lunch/interview with me, or a round of golf.  I also left one architect out of my top 20 who does great design work, is heavily involved in the design process and the construction process:  Mike Devries.  Take care all, if any of you have any great Golf Course Architecture readings for me, let me know.

[Chris Kane]

jg7326,

If you don't wish to answer my question, thats fine.  I just think that it's bizarre that you're ranking architects on a basis other that their work.