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Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« on: July 07, 2008, 12:09:38 PM »
I've just returned from a two week trip to the Eastern Coast of the US, playing several fantastic golf courses. I thought I'd share a few highlights and thoughts on the courses I played.

Bethpage Black - Somewhat spoiled by the thunderstorm which struck around the turn, I thought this was a very tough course on a grand scale, but with little imagination around the greens and very few severely contoured greens. It's an absolute beast from the tips, but thinking back only a few holes will stick in the memory (4, 15, 17, 18). Some wonderful bunkering makes defining distances difficult.

NGLA - Probably my choice if I had to play a course day in, day out. It's very playable, even from the tips, I love the quirky greens and it seems to me the course that would be the most interesting to play on a regular basis and the one which rewards local knowledge the most. The 1st green was spectacular, our caddies informed us when seeing the pin position (back left) that a 5 would be a good score. It was! I look forward to watching the Walker Cup there in 2013.

Shinnecock - I saw similarities between this and Muirfield. Very tough, but fair. Absolutely spectacular to look at and play, with several challenging holes. The redan is wonderful and far more tilted than I had appreciated before. The rough was pretty high, but the greens weren't running as fast and true as I would have hoped. Just a wonderful, true test of golf and I hope the US Open returns there sometime soon. Probably the truest overall test of golf on any of the courses I played.

Pine Valley - Now this is a monster of a course from the tips! Some incredibly contoured greens, visually intimidating but actually more room to play than you think. Definitely a course you need to be driving it well on. I can't really think of a weak hole on the course, and the sense of isolation you feel on the course (and indeed off it when in the Dormy House) is spectacular. Favourite hole would probably be 7, the design of the green is so visually confusing as it appears from the lay up area that the green is wider than it is deep. If you don't hit a good drive it's a par 6 as you're not getting over Hell's Half Acre.

Merion - Certainly plays longer than the yardage! The greens were in great condition, and I think the course will be a superb host for the Walker Cup and the US Open. The rough was pretty benign and I can imagine how tough it will be with the rough up. There are a couple of great opportunities for the USGA to move tees up and create great risk / reward par 4s on 5 and 9. The finish of 16, 17 and 18 will challenge anyone. For day to day play this would be next after NGLA for me.

Kiawah Island Ocean Course - Another real toughie from the tips! Absolutely spectacular setting, and the Sanctuary Hotel is probably the best I've ever stayed in. I was fortunate enough to be pretty lucky throughout the trip with caddies and Scott here was superb, really enthusiastic and helped make the round even more enjoyable. The wind was pretty calm (about 15-20mph) but I don't want to think how hard it is with the wind up. It will be interesting to see what happens in the US PGA in 2012 as I think the scoring could be very high.

Pinehurst 2 - Although the North and South was about to start, I was surprised at the condition of the course. I understand it gets a lot of play but I was surprised at how short the rough was and the lack of real speed in the greens. I presume this is due to the US Amateur taking place shortly. Whilst not spectacular to look at, it's a course for precision and to test your chipping and putting and really tests your imagination the nearer you get to the greens.

Tobacco Road - I really enjoyed this. You have to trust the yardages and convince yourself that you're playing the right shot, but it's great fun golf, albeit the pace of play was pretty slow. Some fabulously contoured greens and definitely a course I think I could shoot a pretty good number on if I played there again. I'd like to see more imaginitive courses like this built in the future.

The whole trip was most enjoyable and I was fortunate enough to be able to play some wonderful courses. Each has many merits and it's really difficult to pick a favourite, so I'm not going to!

Rich Goodale

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 12:59:15 PM »
Lucky man, Tom

I'll be spending 2-3 weeks starting tomorrow on a somewhat similar routing but will be fortunate if am allowed to roll a few of Tom Paul's Lady Precepts over the greens of Gulph Mills.

As for your trip, I know NGLA is fun, but is it really "great?"  Can it ral;ly stand up to Pine Valley, Merion and Shinnecock as a golf course?

Cheers

Rich

Tom Huckaby

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 01:04:00 PM »
Rich:

How do you define "great"?

I answered on the other thread re NGLA - you have me thinking there.

I do still find NGLA to be great.  But my definition may well differ from yours.

See, I think NGLA is a better golf course than Shinnecock... therein lies our issue, methinks.

TH

ps - Tom B. - sorry for the tangent - hell of a trip you had - you are indeed VERY lucky!

Rich Goodale

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 01:11:20 PM »
Tom

It is the difference between an epiphany and a bagatelle, a test and a pop quiz, Catherine Deneuve and Sally Field, etc., etc.......

Rich

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 01:15:30 PM »
My God, what a golf trip.  Most would love to play just one of those that you listed.  You are a lucky man indeed!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 01:24:10 PM »
I love that Tobacco Road made his list...

Tom Huckaby

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 01:26:31 PM »
Tom

It is the difference between an epiphany and a bagatelle, a test and a pop quiz, Catherine Deneuve and Sally Field, etc., etc.......

Rich

Rich:

Understood.  For you greatness requires the championship test also, more or less?

I can understand that.  I just do also believe that it can occur at NGLA more than you seem to be taking into consideration.

TH


Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 01:37:11 PM »
Lucky man, Tom

I'll be spending 2-3 weeks starting tomorrow on a somewhat similar routing but will be fortunate if am allowed to roll a few of Tom Paul's Lady Precepts over the greens of Gulph Mills.

As for your trip, I know NGLA is fun, but is it really "great?"  Can it ral;ly stand up to Pine Valley, Merion and Shinnecock as a golf course?

Cheers

Rich

Rich,

I don't know if I described it correctly, but personally I don't think NGLA is a better, truer test than Shinnecock, Merion or Pine Valley. However, on a day-to-day basis for Member play, I would consider it the most enjoyable and rewarding out of the ones I played due to the quirk and value placed on local knowledge.

As for the truest test, it would be Shinnecock for me.

Have a great trip!

Tom

Tom Huckaby

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 01:42:57 PM »
Tom B - regarding Shinnecock v. NGLA, that is exactly how I'd say it also (if I had the way with words you do).  That is, I completely agree.

But I take it one step to which you may not....

I say NGLA is therefore the greater golf course.

Rich and many others would disagree. 

And therein lies a very fundamental difference in how we assess golf courses.

TH

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 01:45:45 PM »
Tom - Holy Cow - what a rota of courses!

99.8% of us that live here in the Eastern USA would count ourselves very fortunate to experience your good fortune.  Good stuff!

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 02:32:32 PM »
I'll echo the comments about how stellar the trip was (and how jealous I am!), and pose three questions to Tom:  do you have any pictures; did you play any of the courses more than once; and if so, did that make a difference in how you viewed the course(s)?     

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 02:47:25 PM »
Tom B - regarding Shinnecock v. NGLA, that is exactly how I'd say it also (if I had the way with words you do).  That is, I completely agree.

But I take it one step to which you may not....

I say NGLA is therefore the greater golf course.

Rich and many others would disagree. 

And therein lies a very fundamental difference in how we assess golf courses.

TH

Tom,

I wouldn't personally be able to say which is greater, as I think it depends on each person's individual opinion. Personally, as a handicap golfer, I think I'd have more fun at NGLA than Shinnecock and that is why I play golf, and were I ever to have to choose between them to play on a daily basis I'd choose it.

However, I fully understand the opposite view of Shinnecock offering a true, fair, "championship" test of golf, and for some this equates to better - personally I don't feel the need to categorise one over the other, but rather appreciate both for being so different and wonderful, despite being adjacent to each other.

I guess that's why pros love Muirfield because it's so fair, let dislike RSG because of the bad bounces etc - personally I'd take Prestwick over both of them for daily play again for the fun and quirk. If I were a pro or a serious amateur I might well think differently, because as hard as we try to be objective, I think most of us are inflienced to a certain degree by our own game and preferences.

Tom Huckaby

Re: A two week odyssey around the Eastern Coast of the US
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 02:51:17 PM »
Tom B.:

Understood, and thanks.   In the end this certainly does come down to personal preferences; and I most definitely can see how one's perspective necessarily colors things.

I just do TRY to look beyond that.  And that's what the questions here were about, or at least I hoped so.

But in the end you may be right, it may be impossible. 

TH