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rhobbs

Best New Course of 2003
« on: July 10, 2002, 12:41:15 PM »
I am guessing that Doonbeg will be the best new course of 2002 and we just had Pac Dunes take the #1 spot for 2001.
Any guesses on what 2003 will bring?

        Barnbougle Dunes?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2002, 12:45:10 PM »
rhobbs, Roy,

What consideration will Friar's Head be given for that spot in 2002, or has the decision already been made with one half of the year to go ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

rhobbs

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2002, 12:47:37 PM »
I didn't mean to overlook any course built in 2002.  I just figured with all the hype that Doonbeg had generated it would be a shoe in to be #1.  

I was definately wrong on that count.  Sorry.  

Russ
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2002, 12:50:10 PM »
Golf Digest's best new courses, which I guess you're referring to, only include US & Canada listings.

Doonbeg wouldn't even be in consideration given that criteria.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2002, 01:03:45 PM »
We had a huge thread on this several months ago.

Barnbougle Dunes has not received funding to be built yet, according to Tom Doak, unless that has changed in the last few months.  May never be built.

But among courses that will open/have opened in calendar 2002:

Friar's Head (open to a few now)
Rustic Canyon
Hidden Creek
The Bridge (opened for preview play in 2001, but officially opened in 2002)

For 2003:

Bulle Rock II
Texas Tech
Stonewall II (don't know if will open next yer)
French Creek, neighbor of Stonewall by Gil Hanse (9 should be open next summer)

Don't know if Cross Pines Golf & Fishing in Mineola, TX (by C&C) is slated to open in 2003 or not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:07 PM by -1 »

Will W

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2002, 01:20:58 PM »
david kidd's nanea golf club is schedule to open in spring of 2003.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JimB

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2002, 01:30:53 PM »
Nicklaus' new course, Hokulea, (either opening late Fall or Jan-Feb of 2003) on the Big Island in Hawaii is the best thing he's done since Muirfield Village.  Dave Shedloski in his book on Nicklaus' last championship season of 2000 spent three pages just about this golf course concluding that although Jack has had alot of awesome sites to work with, the Hokulea site exceeded them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Clayton

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2002, 01:08:16 AM »
I wouldn't give up hope on Barnbougle just yet.
I have heard more promising news in the past couple of weeks than i've heard in a while.
If it happens there will be two courses there which would really help with the viability thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2002, 12:00:29 AM »
Unless there's been some sort of government or enviro police inference at Barnbougle, I'd say you guys are WAY too quick to call the time of death on this one - haven't you read all the tons of stories about courses that take decades to be built?

Have a little faith in Greg - I know I do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Greg Ramsay

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2002, 06:31:31 AM »
I have to be quite careful what I say here, but feel some of these comments, and earlier references to this development in Tasmania require a response.

First point, we are still delayed by a very technical ruling that saw our Founders Bonds classified as Managed Investments, (with free golf as the commercial dividend).  If any of you ever wanted reassurance that government bureaucracy is alive and well please see below a recent communication from the lady dealing with my submission.  Up until this time my lawyer had been doing all the negotiation etc. but when the govt did not meet their own deadline, i then had cause to step in-

>>Dear Mr Ramsay

Thank you for your email of 19 June. I have noted  its content, including your comments about the need for a decision to be made on your application as soon as possible. I had hoped that decision would be made on 12 June.  I confirm that no decision has yet been made.

Unfortunately applications for relief are not being determined  as quickly as we would like, because of the wider application  of the new provisions, inserted into the Corporations Act by the Financial Services Reform legislation, which took effect on 11 March 11. The new provisions affect applications such as yours. In the past, regulations made under the Act provided that an exemption from the managed investment provisions carried with it an exemption from the requirement to hold a  licence. This is no longer the case, and  the ramifications of  that difference are being examined. There are also, of course numerous applications concerning other matters to be dealt with.

Your concerns have been noted and I will let you know as soon as l can, when a determination is likely to be made on your application.

Yours sincerely

Aileen Sarsfield

Secondly- Once we have the clearance to procees, as we are still very confident we will, then we are pretty much underway, as many of the bonds are accounted for already, simply by word of mouth.  This would see us with the earliest possible opening time of Christmas 2003, so i doubt we would qualify for best course anyway based on timing and not being in the US!

Thirdly- I could have walked away with a fat back pocket and sold this project many times over, and am still in discussions with a variety of well known golf developers.  However i won't be disclosing any of those, so don't ask.  The reason i have not sold this project is that this very special site deserves to be done right-I am 25 with a very tidy little tourism consulting business, and don't have a mortgage, children or any other financial pressures (I can't even find a girlfriend, but Laura Diaz is off the list...i think).  I would rather be patient and see Barnbougle done in a financially viable manner, and in the interests of the local environment, local community and the wider golfing community, as opposed seeing it operated by those who have to squeeze every dollar out of the project (carts all over the place, ultra-expensive and exclusive).  I have spent 2 years working in Scotland and would rather produce a Cruden Bay or Machrihanish than a Turnberry or Links Portmarnock.

Fourthly- Tom has made some statements about Barnbougle which have mystified and disappointed many, but put in context of the general failure rate of proposed golf developments, his concerns are understandable.  Mike Clayton is quite right, after what seems like months of treading water- some exciting things are in the pipeline which may make the Founders Bonds quite so crucial.

Fifthly (not a word used often)- Based on comparisons by those who have seen Bandon&Pacific Dunes, Sand Hills, Doonbeg, Kingsbarns, and the dunes at Barnbougle, (all 1000acres of it) we have a site that is equal or better than all the above, and I think we stand a very good chance of opening a golf course that will compare very favourably.

If i just knew how to attach pics i could add some more to those already available at www.barnbougledunes.com

Looking forward to surprising many of you with something quite special (even if only George Pazin, Paul Daley and I turn up for the inaugrual GCA USA vs.GCA Downunder Matchplay)...and i would rather open with something in 3years which people say 'i'll never forget the first time i played here, and i can't wait to get back' than opening a course next year which people say 'what great service, how wonderfully manicured, shame i can't recall the golf course...i wonder where i'll go on my next golf holiday'

best wishes

Greg  
www.barnbougledunes.com




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2002, 08:10:24 AM »
Greg,

Tom seems to speak from his heart which is usually a good thing.  He probably doesn't ever mean any harm about the things he says.  I am sure someone like him and Mike Clayton are two correct men for the job.  

Keep trusting Tom and you will have one of th most dedicated teams in the world on your doorstep.

Mike,

I have a couple of photos of you and Graeme at Sand Hills shall I e-mail them.  Drop me an e-mail at brian@phillipsgolfdesign.com

Cheers Brian.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2002, 11:03:20 AM »
The two new courses by Tom Doak and Mike Clayton at St Andrews Beach near Melbourne have the potential to be something very special.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2002, 01:50:49 PM »
I'll throw in McArthur Golf Club in Hobe Sound, FL as a candidate.  Its located directly next door to Medalist, is golf only with no homes.  Architects are Nick Price and Tom Fazio.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2002, 02:48:56 PM »
Just played a brand-new course that just opened in
Columbus, OH (open 4 days when I visited) called the
Golf Club of Dublin.

Everything there is meant to mimic the experience of playing a real links course (except for the carts, paths, and bit of
water, of course).  In spite of that, it is a wonderful layout and once the conditioning is up-to-speed, will be one of the year's better offerings.

It seems like a real strong candidate to win some "Best of 2003" awards.  

Has anyone seen this course or know anything about it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike_Cirba

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2002, 03:07:24 PM »
Paul;

Who designed it?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Will W

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2002, 03:17:27 PM »
golf club of dublin is a public course by hurdzan and fry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Slag_Bandoon

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2002, 02:02:29 AM »
Greg,  Keep your eyes on the prize.  What you're working for is worthy and we will wait for the promised land.  I'm working on going to Aus/Tas/NZ in 2004 but I've got to learn to sail first.  See you in Hobart!?  Salute to the Late, Great Sir Peter Blake.  

    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Daley

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2002, 11:31:09 AM »
Greg Ramsay personifies the pioneer golfing spirit of an era long gone. If anyone deserves success, it is this incredibly patient young man. There are two causes for envy: first the fact that he is swimming about in the big league at 25 - an audaciously early age to be conversant with "lawyer" speak and golf course development; and secondly, the awesome linksland he peers out on each day at Bridport, Tasmania. As was mentioned, Greg has been in receipt of some "no brainer" options (sell now ... and never need to work again lest you feel the urge type offers) but has resisted. We will end up the beneficiaries of his patience and inner-resolve.

When the project eventually gets fired up, and should Greg have a say in matters, expect the following: hungry fast-running fairways; NO CARTS; some of the best trained caddies outside of the Old Course; affordable green fees in keeping with the game's ancient roots; two parcels of land - one "this side" of the cutting with sea-views, and another past the cutting with remarkably impressive sand dunes of the heaving magnitude with fewer sea-aspect views. Regarding the the first parcel of land, a few tees won't so much be near the beach, but virtually on it!

Hang in there Greg - go through the hoops and loops, when Barnbougle materialises there will be plenty clamouring to write the scoops.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom Doak

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2002, 01:11:16 PM »
I'm not quite sure what I said about Barnbougle which "mystified and disappointed" everyone so much.  Six months ago, people were asking on here if it had opened yet, and I believe I said it hadn't started and I had no idea when or if it would.

It is a great site, and I'm not trying to be negative about it; just realistic.  At various times in my career I could have rambled on at length about other exciting projects which were at exactly this same stage of development:

  I'd have told you all about the Old Head, four years before it happened with another architect.
  I'd have told you about Archerfield, before John Ashworth had to sell out his option on the land at the eleventh hour.  
  I'd have told you about Bandon Dunes in 1994 ... although Mr. Keiser didn't own the land for Pacific Dunes at that point.
  I'd have told you about Erin, Wisconsin, which still hasn't happened yet, but which Mike Hurdzan and Ron Whitten are slated to do now, two owners after the one who signed me up to do it.  The current owner is using MY quotes comparing the property to Pacific Dunes to sell SOMEONE ELSE's design, and I'm not too happy about it.


The lesson I learned was to not get too excited until we're actually working in the dirt.  (And for that matter, I could tell you about two or three Coore and Crenshaw projects they actually started and had to abandon, unfinished.)  So I'd rather tell you about what we're building now.

Greg Ramsay is in a different position, of course.  He's trying to raise money, so he needs to tell the whole world how great his course will be, and how sure he is that it will happen.  I understand that, and I sure hope he gets the course going, because the site is as good as he advertises.  (Mike Keiser tells me the other site, which Greg didn't show us, is even better, but to turn the tables on Bandon and Pacific Dunes I'd love to build the course we've laid out first, and see if someone can better it.)

In the meantime, Greg, if you get it going soon, we won't have far to go -- I'm headed overseas in ten days to start in on Cape Kidnappers, and it looks like St. Andrews Beach will start pretty soon as well.

P.S.  Texas Tech might contend for the Best New Affordable course in 2003, since donations have made it possible to charge $30 green fees on a $7.5 million course.  I doubt Stonewall will contend for the Best New, just because a second course at a quiet club doesn't have much cachet.  But Cape Kidnappers and St. Andrews Beach may also open in the second half of 2003, and there won't be many new courses in the States to compare with those.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2002, 07:17:47 PM »
I'll add a few more out West.

Royal Kunia in Honolulu will open soon by Robin Nelson.  This course was actually built something like 7 years ago and has never opened because back taxes had never been payed.  It has had a crew of 7 maintance workers ever since just cutting the grass.  Built on a mountain is has views of Honolulu.

Pronghorn in Bend, OR will have a Tom Fazio and a Jack Nicklaus signature golf course.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2002, 12:13:39 AM »
One more for Jeff Lewis and the boys in New York,

Trump National by Donald Trump and Jim Fazio.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

dick cesana

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2002, 12:24:06 AM »
::)WHEN BACK EAST LOOK UP NEWPORT NTL. OPENED JUNE 28 7240 LINKS NO HOUSES COULD BE A STRONG CONTENDER
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jim__janosik

Re: Best New Course of 2003
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2002, 12:28:01 AM »
Best new of 2003 will be C&C's Dos Peublos on the California Coast.

Casa Blanca RAnch by Tod Eckenrode will be in Top 10 in CA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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