News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
the golden agers had it easy..........
« on: July 13, 2003, 09:03:49 PM »
...i want to first state that this thread is a lament ...[pause].........................now let me digress....

 they could [generally]design routings and corridors based on strategy.[real estate??,that was something to consider around the edges ,if at all].

 they could design corridors wide when needed [irrigated fairways were not a factor].look at the plans of thomas ,ross et al]......in fact , alot of thier original designs were 'narrowed' when single row irrigation was added later.

  they could push or pull dirt ,shape ,add drainage and grass.[USGA greens ?,storm water runoff ,retention ,soil disturbance,permits, permits ,etc ,etc ?]........

  they could grass it with whatever ,as long as it was green [at least part of the time]and you could walk ,gang mow or sickle it....prior to the grass monoculture of today ,and the flymo ,weedeat, pump it green because thats what they think they want mentality that [generally] exists today.......

  environmental concerns??[golf was considered 'good' and beneficial for greenspace and recreation].....currently a black brushed ,sorry story at times....

  cart paths[cart paths ??]

  they had greenskeepers [superintendants required now]...

.....we could still build them [probably at 25% of the cost of todays courses].
.....but would they come ? ..... i doubt it......[i would].


....that's my lament.......




 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 08:17:50 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the golden agers had it easy..........
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 09:54:53 PM »
An interesting post from 2002...  And Paul is right.

Don't get me wrong - I'm an environmentalist at heart.  But I also LOVE great golf courses.

Can you imagine what today's best would do without the restrictions put on them by everybody up to and including the Army Corps of Engineers?  WOW!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: the golden agers had it easy..........
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 10:01:36 PM »
Dan:

We can still do some pretty great things even with the Corps of Engineers watching over our shoulders.

We just need clients who care as much (or more) about the golf than about the friggin' real estate.  They are still out there -- I've been lucky to have several of them.  But there aren't many of them, and they tend to hire the same few architects, not the guys whose names sell real estate (one of whom Paul happens to work for).

TEPaul

Re: the golden agers had it easy..........
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2008, 12:13:05 AM »
You're right, Paul. They sure didn't have some of your limitations but they didn't have your tools or resources either. But because they could get a whole lot closer to the "nature" of things they could sure probably do a whole lot better than we might on holes like #2!, #5, #7!, #8!!!!. #10!!, #11!!!, #18! in Newark/Maryland! Plus, the course would've looked out across fields of farmland for the next 90 years instead of a mulit-plex development. But what-r ya gonna do----we live in the world we live in!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 12:17:09 AM by TEPaul »

John Moore II

Re: the golden agers had it easy..........
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 12:23:01 AM »
This reminds me of a oddly placed tree I saw today at CCNC. It was almost overhanging the tee on #11 of the Dogwood. One of the guys hit into it and the Super from CCNC said "Yeah, thats a stupid tree, it would have been cut down years ago if it wasn't a woodpecker tree (endangered species habitat)." So at times I think we can get into those sorts of things, but I think the general quality of golf we get today on the good sites is just as good as it would have been years ago.

-Would Pacific Dunes, or Sand Hills, or Friars Head, or Sebonack, or the Ocean Course  be any better had they been designed 75-100 years ago?? Just an idea to think about.

--On that same line, would Pebble Beach (imagine the left side of 18 hasn't washed out all ready), Cypress Point, or The Old Course be different if designed today?

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: the golden agers had it easy.......... New
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 02:13:47 AM »
Man...interesting post from a person who was learning to type....and hadn't discovered the cap key or spell check!

TP....Newark isn't in the ground.....lots to do yet my friend. ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 11:58:46 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca