[Tim Pitner]

What has Baxter Spann done since Black Mesa?  Is Spann still affiliated with Finger Dye?

[astavrides]

Forgive me, I am catching a flight in 20 minutes, but the water stood out for me on the 15th as minor eyesore.  I forgot to mention the first tee shot over the flag, however I loved the course.  Baxter Spahn did a tremendous job and enjoyed dinner with him the evening I played there.

It's interesting that so many people don't like the water on 15.  If you don't like water because (as the standard mode of thought seems to be here), it is impossible to recover from or because it is overused in modern architecture, or because the old dead guys/minimalists dont use it much, or because it eliminates run up shots to the green, that is one thing.  But I certainly wouldnt call it an eyesore.  I think it is the one of the most beautiful parts of Black Mesa, especially at twilight.  It reflects the stillness and seclusion of the setting and adds a colorful contrast to the green and red and gray surroundings. Of course, 'eyesore' may have been a metaphorical term, used to express disagreement in the use of the water for other reasons.

[Jason Hines]

Astavrides,

You are correct it was metaphorical, I was in a hurry.  I am still stuck at O'Hare and missed a Valentines dinner for a second year in row.  For myself, it was out of place for the hole and course, but I loved the dinosaur backed shaped green.  For the record I hit that green both times, but when standing on the tee it was irritating to look at from a strategic point of view.   IMHO, it would be similar to replacing the natural rock outcrop in the middle of the 14th fairway with a water hazard.  My preference of course, but I see your point as well.

Wish me well at home....

[RJ_Daley]

Jason, I hope you get a 'snow-check' from the homefront.  Man, it has been brutal...

[Jason Hines]

Thanks Dick,

Just walked in the front door, guess what?  No welcoming committee.

[astavrides]

Astavrides,

You are correct it was metaphorical, I was in a hurry.  I am still stuck at O'Hare and missed a Valentines dinner for a second year in row.  For myself, it was out of place for the hole and course, but I loved the dinosaur backed shaped green.  For the record I hit that green both times, but when standing on the tee it was irritating to look at from a strategic point of view.   IMHO, it would be similar to replacing the natural rock outcrop in the middle of the 14th fairway with a water hazard.  My preference of course, but I see your point as well.

Wish me well at home....

The natural rock outcrop on 14 is interesting and much better than a water feature would be there.  Conversely, I like water on 15 better than I would like a natural rock outcrop there.

[Jeff Tang]

I have played all three courses previously mentioned in this thread, Paa-Ko, BM, and WH.  I found that BM and WH played very similar to each other and would agree with the firm and fast assessments.  Between these two I found BM to be more interesting mostly because I thought BM to have more variety and there was a lot of opportunity to feed the ball to the hole on approach shots which to me is a big plus.  Tee to green BM was more challenging overall as well, I found WH to be more straightforward.   It seemed the wide open nature of WH allowed you to get away with more off the tee.  I would say that I really like both courses.  I thought WH was a great looking course and the greens were great.  I could do without so many blind shots at BM as well.

I find Paa-Ko to be a completely different kind of course than both BM and WH and it's almost hard to compare.  From the previous posts I am probably in the minority saying that I prefer Paa-Ko to both BM and WH.  I think visually Paa-Ko is just a really beautiful place and each hole is great with some good strategic thinking required off the tee.  There's a lot of drama built into the course which makes it a lot of fun to play.  I would agree that the par 3’s are repetitive with them being long and down hill mostly, but this didn’t detract from the overall experience for me too much.  Of the three courses I also found Paa-Ko to be the most challenging.  At BM my scores improved with each round as you can definitely benefit from some local knowledge there.  At Paa-Ko I found it difficult to score period.  It seems there’s a big number luring on many holes at Paa-Ko and sooner or later it’s going to get you.

Overall these are three of my favorite courses.

[Matt_Ward]

Jeff:

Just a short question looking for an equally short answer ...

Given what you just wrote -- what is the best overall golf course (by whatever means you define it) for you?

P.S. Tell me how blind shots impacted your assessment of BM? If you have played multiple rounds there now it would stand to reason that such an element (often used on a range of classic courses and across the pond) should not effect your opinion of the course now.

[Jeff Tang]

Matt,

Of the three courses I prefer Paa-Ko-Ridge.  For me I just find it to be a more enjoyable golf experience overall.

Regarding the blind shots at BM I found them during my first round to be somewhat annoying.  My second and third rounds there (I've played it three times in total) I found the shots to be less blind if that makes sense, probably because I knew what was on the other side of the blind shots.  I will say that I didn't notice them or pay attention to them as much in my second and third rounds.  I felt after my first round that there were a ton of blind shots, but after the next couple of rounds I didn't quite feel there were as many oddly.

I would say overall that I prefer courses that don't have as many blind shots, I'd rather play a course that has everything in front of you and I like to see what happens to my ball.  I don't mind a couple per round but I thought there were too many at BM, even with having gotten to know the course better with each round.  Simply a preference, I'm in no way arguing that great courses can't have a lot of blind shots, I'm just saying what I prefer.

[Andy Troeger]

Jeff,
Glad somebody out there agrees with me about Paa-Ko! 

I'm not so sure I agree with how terribly hard Black Mesa is, I think Paa-Ko is harder and quite a few other places are harder. With the firmness of BM I think it plays pretty short and from 6700 yards I can hit 3 and 5 woods all day which helps with the accuracy bit. Out of my last 30 rounds my best score is at Black Mesa, granted I played well that day but still, I'm not really that good as most of you who have seen me play can attest to!

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,
Glad somebody out there agrees with me about Paa-Ko! 

I'm not so sure I agree with how terribly hard Black Mesa is, I think Paa-Ko is harder and quite a few other places are harder. With the firmness of BM I think it plays pretty short and from 6700 yards I can hit 3 and 5 woods all day which helps with the accuracy bit. Out of my last 30 rounds my best score is at Black Mesa, granted I played well that day but still, I'm not really that good as most of you who have seen me play can attest to!

Oh please Andy,

Enough with all the false modesty already.  Don't make me tell the group about the last round we played when you intentionally took a snowman on the last hole to avoid posting a sub 70 round....or was that 90?    

Kalen

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