[Matt_Sullivan]

A green with a small stream splitting it in two, creating two smaller greens -- hole number 13 at the Jack Nicklaus Seaview Course in Bintan, Indonesia.

It's a gimmick, but it does make the hole memorable

[Jim Nugent]

A green with a small stream splitting it in two, creating two smaller greens -- hole number 13 at the Jack Nicklaus Seaview Course in Bintan, Indonesia.

It's a gimmick, but it does make the hole memorable

If you hit the green - but on the wrong side of the creek - do you play your shot from there?  Seems like golfers might really dig up that green by pitching from it.  

[Matt_Sullivan]

Jim, it's not that common an occurrence actually -- I have played the course maybe 100 times (used to be a member there) and maybe seen it once. This is perhaps because both parts of the green are relatively small and well protected. I've seen quite a few pitches and bunker shots from around the green go in the water though.

Anyway, from memory there is a local rule that allows you to take a drop just off the green (or maybe a drop zone). I will check the card when I get home from work. And see if I can find a picture

[Mike Policano]

At The European Club there is the 127 yard 12th green. There are also two par 3's, 8a and 12a that take the golfer from the 8th green to the 9th tee and from the 12th green to the 13th tee, respectively.

Also, in Colorado, there is this E green....

[BCrosby]

A green with a small stream splitting it in two, creating two smaller greens -- hole number 13 at the Jack Nicklaus Seaview Course in Bintan, Indonesia.

It's a gimmick, but it does make the hole memorable

Nicklaus did the same things at CC of the South about 25 miles north of ATL. Fun hole. There are drop areas if you end up on the wrong green.

[Jerry Kluger]

Another original design feature which I've seen is what I call the vertical cross bunker which I've seen Jim Engh use at Blackstone and Pradera.  It is a bunker that runs with the fairway and toward the center, as opposed to most cross bunkers which run across the fairway. They are long and they are deep and their edges are raised so a ball is not likely to roll in as opposed to bouncing in.

If I'm not mistaken, the photo with the dramatic two level green is #6 at Pradera - it is an uphill par 4 and the green is about 50 paces deep.  A player would learn after just one round that you must hit the ball to the proper level and I have to believe that a putt or recovery shot from one level to the other would be the exception as the player would know the consequences of under or over clubbing.  

[James Bennett]

There have been a few 'original' things for me this year.

1  Riviera #14 and the seasonal tees (so the par 3 doesn't play into the afternoon sun during the year).

2.  Riviera #6, the donut green with the bunker in the middle.

3.  Probably Rustic Canyon.  Not sure which part, but #1 sets the the scene for the round, especially that little ditch that meanders wickedly on the line of play.  Of course, the impact of the ditch is magnified by the ground game required at that course.

4.  North Berwick West.  Most of it but certainly the walls eg #3 and #13, and of course #16 green (the split green).

5.  Muirfield bunkers.  Tom Doak described them on his tour next door at Renaissance as half gathering, half revetted.  They are unique, and effective.

6.  Glenelg bunkers (Adelaide).  Neil Crafter designed a half revett, half flashed sand bunker using the natural orange-tinge sands at Glenelg which mimics the playability style of the Melbourne sand-belt but without the grey sands which can compact to give the hard flashed faces.

7.  Lakeside (Max Behr) #13.  The short par 4 angles to the left, uphill.  However, the green is perhaps 40 yards long and only 8 yards wide with some flanking hazards.  Very little slope from back to front to assist the player, so the approach shot is particularly challenging, often from either too far left or too far right.  The tee-shot has to hit a particular length for a particular line to be rewarded.

8.  Lakeside (Max Behr) #15 and #15A.  There are two holes here, perhaps at 90 degrees to each other.  One is a lovely mid-length par 3 played down into a valley/swale where the green is set.  The other (the A hole) is just a pitch of perhaps 100 yards, perhaps less across that valley.  Played from the top of the swale to an elevated shallow green atop another swale.  You don't want to be long, nor do you want to be short.

Behr created an interesting combination of wedge shots in two holes - line of play on #13 and length of play at #15A.  

Thanks to my hosts on that day - Lakeside pulls a number of memorable stunts, sitting just below Universal Studios in LA.

James B

[Tom_Doak]

JES:

Sorry I'm late getting back to you.

I just think it's important for architects to keep trying to be original.  If all golfers were willing to settle for the same four par-3's on every course, you wouldn't need architects -- any contractor could go out and build them.  But I'd probably quit the game when that happened.

I'm not saying you should try TOO hard to build something original -- that's how gimmicks (such as a green split by a stream) come into being, and I hate gimmicks.  But when an opportunity arises to do something a bit different, and you can make the shot values work, it's a shame not to expand the body of golf course design.

Does the wall at Stonewall North count?  It's certainly not the first place I've seen a wall in play, and not the best use of a wall, either.  But the walls were there (or had been -- some of them needed restoring) -- so we used them.

[Peter Nomm]

The green on the par-five #18 at Greywalls in Marquette, MI.  Just a basic round green surrounded by nothing but fairway (see GCA review).

While there are many original ideas with Greywalls, most of them are derived from the natural features (ie. 50' rock wall next to #5 green).  But this was no question a decision made by the architect.  Unfortunately for me, with so much great stuff going on everywhere else on the course, this green was kind of a let-down.  At least St. Andrews #18 has the Valley of Sin.  

[Sandy Smith]

Loved the Liberty Bell tee markers at Alantic City CC , the course and clubhouse are great . Thank you to the members of GCA who put me on to it . It is a true gem .

[Todd Kuspira]

Sandy,

I am sure it was a special trip to the Eastern seaboard.  What did you shoot at Atlantic City CC?  I heard books were on sale in the Golf Shop, Can you confirm?

tk

[john_stiles]

Maybe the 10th at Hidden Creek.

It is a reachable par 5 but the green is very large and slopes down and away.   Really creates an unusual short approach shot for most golfers.  You need a good deal of confidence in your distance if you have a short third shot.   The green slopes away and you immediately know that you must decide on whether to let it bounce and roll, or spin it.  

A fall away green takes away some of the Bushnellness and I like that.

[JESII]

Thanks Tom,

The trying TOO hard is what scares me...for the same reasons you dislike it. We'll agree on the goal needing to be always look for an opportunity to try something new while being concious of avoiding gimmicks.

The wall at Stonewall North...I like it in both instances (#2 and #8). It managed to really confuse me on the 8th in both rounds of our city mid-am. Because of its diagonal I mistakenly thought it was in play up the left center so I hedged right a bit and hit weak shots into the rough near the bunkers. From there I was uncertain of the line and distance to hit my lay up and hit poor shots both times and struggled for par once and made bogey the other...

If there is a better use of a wall somewhere I'd be curious to hear about how...I haven't played TOC, but #17 would seem to be no easier without the wall, am I correct?

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks Tom,

The trying TOO hard is what scares me...for the same reasons you dislike it. We'll agree on the goal needing to be always look for an opportunity to try something new while being concious of avoiding gimmicks.

The wall at Stonewall North...I like it in both instances (#2 and #8). It managed to really confuse me on the 8th in both rounds of our city mid-am. Because of its diagonal I mistakenly thought it was in play up the left center so I hedged right a bit and hit weak shots into the rough near the bunkers. From there I was uncertain of the line and distance to hit my lay up and hit poor shots both times and struggled for par once and made bogey the other...

If there is a better use of a wall somewhere I'd be curious to hear about how...I haven't played TOC, but #17 would seem to be no easier without the wall, am I correct?

Jim, greatest use of a wall to me - and James Bennett above - and many others, is #13 The Pit at North Berwick West Links.  If you haven't been there yet, it's worth a trip!  



It's a shortish par 4, with a wall directly in front of the green and dune to the left and short left.  Your approach shot has to clear the wall or the resulting pitch is very dicey indeed!

The wall at #17 TOC is only in play if you have already screwed yourself by going over the green and onto the road.  It is a problem when you roll across the road and up against the wall.

Otherwise - no problem!  

[Josh Smith]

This is...

      Something about the way the edges of the bunker are flat made it jump out at me as something I had never really seen before.  This is a favorite bunker of mine.  A "fairway" bunker where there is actually "fairway" leading you into it is pretty great too.  Love that.

       The player pictured is Mark Thawley, one of the first GCA posters years ago, he works with Kyle Phillips.  See his ball hanging knee high.  We called this the "Ernie at Troon" lie and stance.  So "unfair"!

        Honorable mention.
DeVries rockface hazards at Greywalls,
Hanse hybrid bunkers at Castle Stuart (only in photos)
C&C The front of 17 green at Bandon Trails, very different and cool green edge tie in.
Doak teeing grounds at Ballyneal.

 

[Tom_Doak]

Jim S:

The hole at North Berwick pictured above is the best use of a wall on a golf course that I've ever seen.  The hole is about 360 yards from all the way back ... downwind, guys like you have driven the green, but that's a hell of a daring shot.  

The great part about it is that you play up alongside the wall off the tee and then over it on the approach, so if you can hang close to the wall on the tee shot, you play laterally over it, but the further you bail to the right off the tee the more you have to play directly across.  It's only about 3 feet high but it has a LOT of influence.

Ever since I took my associate Don Placek there ten years ago he is quasi-obsessed with stone walls in play ... he was the lead associate for Stonewall and for The Renaissance Club which also has a couple of remnant walls to contend with.

[Sean_A]

I have never seen a better use of a wall because it threatens the tee shot and the approach.  I can recall the first time playing the course.  There was a strong tail wind and all of my playing partners were hitting irons off the tee.  I couldn't see what the danger was so bashed a driver down.  What these chaps failed to tell me is that a really well hit shot on the right line will slide toward the wall and leave you with what I had for a second - no shot as I was tight against the wall.  It was one of the most odd situations I ever found myself in after hitting what I thought was a perfect drive.  

I am sure that on my last trip back there was a new bunker slapped in near the wall maybe 100 yards short to muck with folks laying up for the right angle of approach.  Its an area that has a natural slope away from the wall so I can only presume that somebody figured out that the wall helped keep players in good position even if the tee shot was tweaked left.

Its a great hole and in for a shout as the best on the course full of wonderful golf.

Ciao

[Philip Gawith]

The walls on the 2nd and 6th at Muirfield are not as integral perhaps as The Pit hole, but still add lots of character to those two holes.

Sean - even worse than your scenario at the Pit hole is to be close enough to be able to pitch over the wall, but also close enough to know that if you lift your head and thin it, it will all be a bit embarrassing!

Talking of originality/North Berwick, you could also cite the green with the dip in the middle - is it 16?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

It's not a particularly original hole, but there's one on the public course at Heaton Park in North Manchester (JH Taylor) on which you drive blind over a valley to a distant, rhododendron-encrusted fairway. Get it right and you can drive the green, turning a 360-yard right-angled dog-leg into something more like 250 yards. You can't see the green but if you have played there enough times you have a good idea where it is. There is a safe route for wimps like me - a 5-iron off the tee to where the fairway turns right and another 5-iron downhill (I couldn't get there otherwise!) to the green.

Nothing unusual about that, you might suggest.

What is in the bottom of the valley is what is of relevance - a gipsy encampment. You top it in there at some personal danger....

[Bart Bradley]

I played the Honors Course for the first time this fall and this par 3 looked really original to me....credit Ran's write up for the photos...The interesting and seemingly original part of this hole is that from the tee you would not call it a blind hole...but all of the problems are blind or nearly so...as it is currently maintained, immediately left of the green is deep nearly unplayable rough....Tom has this hole been discussed before?   Is it interesting enough for a separate thread?  Am I wrong or is this hole opposite of typical Dye...It looks easier than it is....whereas, most of his stuff visually looks more intimidating than it plays?








Bart

[JohnH]

Wow, Bart, talk about no maintenance.  

The last thing original I saw was an 80+ year old foursome at my course back in October that were original members many years ago.

[John Moore II]

I'm not sure if this course has been mentioned, I didn't read the entire thread, however, to me Tobacco Road near Pinehurst is by far the most original golf course I have ever played. Really the entire course, not just part of it. The whole place is like nothing I've ever seen.

[Dan Moore]

The one thing I saw this year that I hadn't seen before was a mogul like mound in the back right of the 14th green at Langford and Moreau's Ozaukee.  The mound was 2-3 feet high and maybe 3-4 feet wide just sitting there in the green.  I heard some one in the group ahead of us was able to get up and down with the mogul between him and the cup.  

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