[Mike Sweeney]

Don't know, but it looks pretty good to me!






More pics at:

http://www.elitegolfcourses.com/sugarloafmountain/

[Jeff_Mingay]

Thanks for the link, Mike.

I don't know the answer to your question. One way or the other, Sugarloaf is a very classy looking golf course.

[TEPaul]

Mike:

Thanks for the thread and the link.

I don't know who they were channeling, if anyone, but it sure doesn't look like Raynor to me. If it looks like anybody, it looks to me like some combination of Flynn and Mackenzie.

Interesting bunker look for C&C. A few of those elongated capes look like Mackenzie/Maxwell. Flynn did a few but not often. Some of those bunkers look real low profile too, like some of Mackenzie's originals.

It also looks like they put a lot of small contour "movement" in those fairways.

[PThomas]

do you know when it opens Mike?  and thanks for the pics

[Jimmy Muratt]

Sugarloaf is really looking promising, growing in very nicely.  The second picture is very reminiscent of Chechessee Creek which was inspired by the local Raynor work (Yeamans & CC of Charleston).  I like how C&C left a lot of the exposed sand and native areas alone.  

In those pictures, there also appear to be many greens with waterfall edges than can easily gather balls into bunkers.  I'm very anxious to see it....

[JESII]

Just out of curiosity...in the link to the website there is a picture with a flaming orange sunset...is that from the golf courses property? Where are those buildings?

Regardless...that is really a cool part of the country to build a course...real movement on the ground...

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Hard to tell from photos but my first guess would not be Flynn!  I'll give you an opinion after I play it.

[JESII]

Mike's not looking for an answer...so long as he gets confirmation that his needle struck its target...

[wsmorrison]

missed  

[JESII]

So far...

[wsmorrison]

I'm bobbing and weaving like a young Cassius Clay.  He'll never get me with that slow jab of his  

[Jeff_Mingay]

Looking at the photos quickly, the almost complete absence of typical rough grass areas bordering the fairways stood out as well. This feature provides the course with a look similar to Royal Melbourne and other Aussie sandbelt courses... at least in these photos.

[JESII]

I'm bobbing and weaving like a young Cassius Clay.  He'll never get me with that slow jab of his  

Don't hurt yourself over there...it would be a bad scene to get injured while playing on the computer...

Besides, I don't think you even know who the needle is going to come from...

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike's not looking for an answer...so long as he gets confirmation that his needle struck its target...

At least 1 guy in Philly understands! Your renewal application to the Irish Invitational has been confirmed.

It opens in early February, and it appears that there will be a mad rush to open the gates and I am sure that some here may hop over a little early too! I will not see it as February is a powder month out West.

Also those buildings are downtown Orlando.

[wsmorrison]

All this went way over my head.  Guess I'll just go sit by the mailbox and wait for the Scottish Invitational.

[Mike Sweeney]

All this went way over my head.  Guess I'll just go sit by the mailbox and wait for the Scottish Invitational.

I am not on the committee, however "The Irish" is run by Chairman Fitzpatrick at GCA-lite Sand Barrens. I believe the ability to drink beer in 40 degree weather in late March gets you in!

[JESII]

If I were building a course today Raynor's model would be much more appealing to attempt to emmulate. It looks to me like C&C feel the same way. The first image in Mike's post carries a pretty strong engineered appearance.

[Mike Sweeney]

If I were building a course today Raynor's model would be much more appealing to attempt to emmulate. It looks to me like C&C feel the same way. The first image in Mike's post carries a pretty strong engineered appearance.

I saw the Sugarloaf property last New Years and took a quick little tour. At that point, the trees were cleared but there were no golf holes, just some clearing. The property had one steep hill sort of like the front side of Shinnecock (but not the back). I have to say that I am shocked by how good these pictures are compared to what I saw. At some point there will be houses around, as it clearly is a housing community on the outskirts of Orlando.

Ok here it comes......I think these guys are now number 1 in my book over the Dead Guys. The worst C&C course that I have played is Hidden Creek, and I joined it because I think it is great.

Since Redanman is not around, here goes .... I am a C&C buttboy! There I said it, throw me out of The Raynor Society toss me off every Flynn course. These guys know how to build FUN members course, and that is what I like!!  

Dr. Gene, please take me back to the Mother Ship!  

Back on topic:

Sully,

I think they had to maufacture some interesting features since it was Florida terrain, even if it is better Florida terrain. I would be curious if people that have played Warren or Chechessee feel like C&C could have manufactured some additional features? I have not played either, but it seems to be a common thought around here.

[John Kirk]

Ok here it comes......I think these guys are now number 1 in my book over the Dead Guys.

Dead guys start at No. 3 in my book.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I have played many of C&C's courses and frankly like all of them.  In fact, I can't think of one that is less then very good.  However, if you see a lot of them, they do tend to start to look the same in many ways.  That is not necessarily a knock, just an observation.  I have played Chechessee and would say the same about that one.  

One thing we have to remember is that these guys get hired because the owner likes their style of golf course, what they do and what they have built.  I think an owner would be upset if they hired C&C and they built something that looked like Nicklaus did it.  I think all architects (Doak and others included) have styles and preferences that they gravitate to.  Whether they admit it or not, if you see enough of their courses, it is true and maybe in part for the reason specified above.

By the way, for those who might argue that these architects don't worry about a style or preferences and just try to get the most out of a site, I would suggest that they still can do that but they often do it with a certain style, etc.  

Just my opinion.
Mark

[Michael Christensen]

looks like my $$$ are going to good use!  

can't wait to see it in person when I am down there around christmas!

[TEPaul]

I just had a brief chat with Bill Coore and I mentioned this thread entitled "Re: Did C&C channel Flynn or Raynor at Sugarloaf".

What followed was one of those typical BillC five seconds or so of silence, then a "hmmm", then a slight chuckle, and then silence again. That was it, so keep discussing and speculating and guessing folks. But the reality is you will never know!

[TEPaul]

Actually, to be totally honest with you guys I think I was about 42% as curious to get an answer from him as you guys may be. So figuring his above response was not really an adequate enough answer for me to run onto GOLFLCLUBATLAS.com and tell the entire Internet world about, I think I said:

"Yeah, I know you, you old sly fox, you and BenC were really channeling Max Behr, weren't you?"

What followed was no "Hmmm", no chuckle, and no nothin' else except complete silence!

[Peter Pallotta]

Didn't want this to fall off the first page

Peter

[JESII]

Tom,

I don't give a hoot who Bill Coore thought[/i] they were channeling down there...I can tell you this...if they decided to "channel" Billy Boy Flynn clearly they are on the downswing...let's just hope they can keep that out of the press releases...

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