Save Papago Golf . Com

[Tony Petersen]

Hey guys. I guess this may be a little OT, though the project revolves around some of the best architecture (and land ) to be found in the "Valley of the Sun." Yes, just like Torrey Pines accusations are being hurled... but this time the City of Phoenix is actually listening to the golfers!!! When you have a moment, check out the following link and let them know how you feel:

www.savepapagogolf.com

Thanks again for everything over the years, guys. Looking forward to the next KP (if and when...)

Tony P.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Thanks for posting this.

There have been a few threads posted on the ongoing plans to renovate/restore Papago:

www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=31560

www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=31875

Forrest Richardson posted on the use of his Master Plan by the AGA.

This is a real mess.

[Don_Mahaffey]

If the AGA is involved...I'm betting on a total cluster...you know what.

[Tony Petersen]

As someone who is pretty intimate with the AGA (more Handicaps & Course ratings than Tournaments) they actually do a great job for those in need on the other side of the counter... However, they are not the NCGA when it comes to Club Administration and managing a true asset

I'm glad to see that the "powers that be" have decided against going with the AGA and instead are inviting discussions related to local enjoyment rather than the bottom line... Though dollars will end up being a major issue, regardless of whether the news is good or bad. There is a lot of potential, and a lot of industry-specific resources that call Phx/Scotts home (whether players, architects, visionaries, etc.). One would hope that that alone would guarantee a certain degree of oversight.

I like to think that the end result will be a fantastic golf design that will probably end up costing a little more than budgeted... Because of the clubhouse

[Dave Givnish]

Tony

Without having a vested interest in this, what is the real issue in this controversy?  Are the current core players upset with the prospect of being displaced?  Is it because the AGA was technically correct in responding to the city's RFP?

It looks like the only way to get enough capital to do the needed restoration work is to change the economics or go for charitable donations.  The city does not have the cash to keep funding a losing venture and the changes in the housing market won't make that any easier.

Changing the economics probably means increasing fees to both residents and non-residents.  Improving the quality of the product is essential to get Papago back on the map for tourists.  Scottsdale is doing it now with the TPC Champions course.  Let's see how that works.

[Tom Yost]

... what is the real issue in this controversy?  ...

That's a good question.   I spent an hour reading the materials they present, and I'm still not quite sure what the issues are.  Much of the communications are unfocused,  sometimes rambling and full of so many acronyms that make it difficult to understand.  They would certainly benefit by a more clearly stated and concise presentation of the nature of their dispute.

As best I can tell, the main problems:
- Oppose the AGA as the manager for several reasons primarily the fact that golf course management is NOT the AGA's charter or normal business. They frequently point out the failure of the AGA's one previous attempt at golf course management.
- Funding - The AGA brings the least amount of upfront cash to the table.
- Concern about proposed higher green fees and possible change of culture from a municipal facility to an more upscale environment.  
- Concern about reduced access by the Men's Club for events.

One often has to read between the lines to pick out the issues and seperate from the sometimes unprofessional acrimony that is prevelant.

There is one thing that interested me about the AGA proposal - Phase 2 plans include building a new structure that would house AGA offices...    That concerns me.

It is interesting to read the bid proposals.  The AGA for sure offers the least detail.  

Off topic to the "dispute," but of interest to GCA fans, the Bellows proposal details the changes that have been made to the course as observed by study of early 70's aerials.


Tom