[Phil McDade]

The 7th at Lawsonia is one of those holes in the Langford/Moreau canon that makes me and others wonder just how much Langford in particular had studied the works of Raynor and/or Macdonald. The boxcar hole at Lawsonia clearly has antecedents to the classic "Short" hole, with its target nature and the severe penalties for a miss.

In my wildest dreams, I think Lawsonia -- brought up to proper fast/firmness, native grasses grown high, green speeds esp. brought up to speed -- could host a major like the Women's Open or the public linx or something along those lines.

[igrowgrass]

I'll throw in Plainfield's 6th. Has all the features described above: You come to the hole, look at the distance, and think you have a breather. Til you look at the great menacing bunker in front, sheer drop off if you go over,  steep slope on right side of green, and lots going on on the green.

Isn't the eleventh at Plainfield under 135?
How about the 8th at Maidstone?

[Doug Siebert]

Lawsonia's 7th and ANGC's 12th have one important thing in common that I believe a Short could use rather than merely a small green.  I think having a green that angles from short left to far right makes for a very difficult shot (for right handers) on a hole almost everyone is hitting a short iron or less at.  Working the ball to the right with a 5 iron and doing it with a PW are two very different things.

Rather than simply making the green really small and surrounding it with sand, making it larger (though probably not so large as Lawsonia's 7th, probably more like ANGC's 12th) and creating a long narrow angled target could make a very interesting hole.  Even if the penalty for misses isn't quite as larger as Lawsonia's 7th and ANGC's 12th.

The other thing they have in common is a somewhat elevated tee hitting into a depression with trees partially surrounding it, leading to some interesting swirling winds that make the shot dicey.  Even if the shot was only 120-130 yards you are hitting it with a more lofted club where the effect of the wind is even larger relative to the length of the shot.

You don't need to make players get double bogeys, on such a short hole the good players are thinking birdie and the average players are thinking par, so all you need to do is make those difficult goals to achieve so that most players walk off the green feeling like they blew an easy chance to make up a stroke.

[Norbert P]

 7th at Barnbougle


"Little Devil"

[Jim Nugent]

Isn't the 8th hole at Olympic around 135?  Others can describe the hole far better than I can.  As I recall, it's somewhat uphill, large bunkers protect the front, leaving a blind or semi-blind tee shot.  Are there some tree issues as well?  

[Rich Goodale]

The 11th(?) at Applebrook is one of the best I have seen, and surely the best "modern" one.  Tiny green, sitting on a hill, hit it or weep.  I'd love to see the pros play something like that with money on the line.

[wsmorrison]

"Wayne -- any descriptions on the size of Merion's green? Wider than deeper, or the other way around? Do the internal contours effectively create a smaller target area for certain pin placements?"

The 13th at Merion East is small, approximately 3200sf.  As can be seen in the drawing below, the green is about 19 yards deep and 20 yards wide.  With the green firm, the slope off the fronting bunker tends to propel shots into the rear bunkers, making for a difficult recovery.  However, almost all of the green space is pinnable with a number of interesting pin positions.

With small greens with interplays of slopes (I like that a lot better than a horseshoe or other unnatural-looking features) that extend to fall-offs and wrap behind bunkers there is a challenge to all golfers.  The better players will try to attack pins on the peripheries and could get into trouble if they don't pull off a good shot.  High handicappers will try for the center of the green (if they play smart) and their own variance in execution could get them into trouble.  A safe play to the middle of greens, especially on short par 3s and approaches does not seem to be the decisions that many better players make.

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