Playing Long Shadow during the Dixie Cup IV Matches

[Brent Hutto]

I thought I'd kick off a thread for discussing the course as experienced by the Dixie Cup players. I only took a handful of photos so hopefully others will pitch in with illustrations. It certainly a fine match-play venue with plenty of thrilling shots to be pulled off down the stretch in a tight match. But unlike some quirky or overly demanding courses for which "good match play" is a euphemism for blind shots and over-the-top penal features, Long Shadow is also perfectly playable with a scorecard in ones hand. In fact, I found it very accomodating for the bogey golfer at least from the blue tees.

My own overall summary of the course is that it is a good routing over interesting terrain with a world-class set of greens. There are several unusually shaped holes, an interesting mix of fairway bunkers and grassy hollow type semi-hazards and plenty of elevation change, often used to very confounding effect on club selection. But to me the greens were an excellent illustration of how to provide bold slopes while still having multiple pinnable areas even if the greens were putting quite fast (which they were not this week, BTW). Also a thorough mixture of medium-large down to quite small green areas.

Standout holes in terms of tee to green layout for me would be the third, ninth, fourteenth, fifteenth and sixteenth. The green themselves were flawlessly contoured from the very first hole while the entire complexes of the sixth, seventh, fourteenth, sixteenth and eighteenth come to mind as having offered particularly challenging play. And the set of one shot holes were great. The seventeenth is the obvious star of the show but I think the eighth hole is its equal, if not in visual excitement then certainly in difficulty and intimidation. Plus an homage to ANGC's twelfth (Long Shadow's thirteenth) and an above-average instance of a medium-length drop shot hole at the fourth.

I'll add more comments later and here's one photo just to start things off...

[Brock Peyer]

Come on, Brent, you are teasing us with that photo?!?!?  

[Brent Hutto]

Brock,

I just thought it was a cool picture that for me kind of captures the feel of the place. It's a view of the group ahead of mine on Saturday teeing off from the gold tees on the eighteenth hole. The cart path in the foreground runs around the right side of the spectacular seventeenth green and thence way up the hill to a windswept tee for the closing hole. The back nine at Long Shadow has some very nice, open vistas and all the elevation change you could want.

This picture also captures another memorable element of the course. There are of course cart paths throughout and in fact it is not an easy walk. I walked each day although on Sunday I hopped on a fellow competitor's cart at times to avoid having to cover some of the more demanding uphill/downhill terrain on foot. I appreciated the "core" routing which will minimize housing intrusion and which leads to minimal (by modern standards) green-to-tee walks. However, in contrast to the O.D.G. Athens CC on Friday it is not compact enough to allow walkers to play in the 3-3.5 hours. I'd say a foursome playing from carts at Long Shadow is worth 20 minutes or more of pace compared to a foursome of walkers.

The photo also gives a flavor of the native plants and grasses (including ragweed alas) that cover the property just outside the playing corridors. The current drought has everything a bit more sparse than normal but in a normal summer those hills will have a striking natural appearance. Unfortunately, I only have a few snapshots of the eighth hole and a couple other random shots so there's not much more than a "teaser" available to me to post.

[Dale_McCallon]

Brent,

The holes that you call outstanding--aren't those the ones you won?

Seriously, Long Shadow was a lot of fun.  I've never played a course that balls rolled so far and it did make for some interesting play.  I know some of this is due to water shortages, but I hope that they will some day be able to find a way to maintain the fast conditions, while improving the turf in spots.

Not a walking couse in one fat a**s opinion.  I walked Sat, but knew I didn't want to do it again.  Combining the harsh terrain w/some long walks tee to green about killed me.  Brent was wise to use the cart for some of the tough parts.

About the holes, certainly 17 is memorable and seemed to be the star of the show.  The green is so awesome to see from the tee.  But my personal favorite may have been 5.  A great par five that plays shorter than the distance, but a single tree guarding the dogleg, make the question of go or not to go more difficult (and the ditch short of the green).  But the lay up is where it really was cool IMO.  I hit a short iron that caromed up and down a hill around a nasty looking bunker 60-75 yards short of green.  Left a wedge to a small green.

Several other holes had so much to look at off the tees and looking back from green to tee, so much to see.

I would recommend LS to anyone that ends up in the Hotlanta to Augusta corridor.

[Billsteele]

On my eleven hour drive back to Ohio, fueled by numerous Diet Cokes and the new Springsteen CD, I had ample time to ponder what I experienced at Long Shadow. I think it is a very good and fun golf course to play. To me, the set of par threes were very strong. I also thought the par fives were quite interesting. Of the par fours, I really liked 7, 10, 11 and 15. The green complexes are quite interesting and aside from the obvious (17), I thought the greens at 9 and 14 were particularly intriguing. I also liked how Mike Young varied the size of the greens...monstrously huge on 17, almost microscopic in comparison on 5  and 12. The bunkering is quite good and the meteor crater fronting the right side of 17 must be seen to be fully appreciated (I experienced it from both the tee and its sandy bottom).
   My only quibbles with the course would be minor. Unlike my good friend Brent, I did not feel the love for 16. On a property that is quite expansive and on somewhat of a grand scale, 16 is the only hole I felt squeezed on. I'm sure from his comments at dinner that Mike Young might have been going for that on the tee shot and , if so, it had that effect on me.  However, that was the one hole that seemed somewhat out of character with the rest of the course.
   Long Shadow is also a visually stimulating course. It has a great look and when it grows in that look should only be enhanced. However, for simpletons like me who process things visually, there are times when you could go into sensory overload because there is so much going on to the eye. While I really liked 12, it seemed almost too busy.
   But these are small complaints made by a large man. Overall, a fabulous golf course which was delightful to play. Thanks to Bill McBride and Mike Whitaker for putting this together and thanks to Mike Young for being so generous with his course and his time.

[Kyle Harris]

Pictures:

Madison Courthouse:


1st Tee Shot:


2nd Tee Shot (note bunkers on right):


2nd fairway (note situation of bunkers on right as compared to from the tee):


The zigzagging par 5 3rd from the beginning of the fairway:


Par 3 4th:


Preview of the 9th hole on walk from 4 to 5:


The aforementioned Par 5 5th:


The time of day made the course name quite appropriate... from just left of the tree shown in the previous picture:


Approach to 7th hole:


Par 3 8th in all its devilish glory:


....not naming names... ;-)


The tee shot on nine:


The approach on nine:

[Mike Sweeney]

On the course:

I think the heart of Long Shadow are holes 10-14 for me.

10 - Downhill roller coaster par 4

11 - Uphill Par 4.5 that looks like it could be set in England

12 - Downhill 5, no minimalism on that hole, loved it.

13 - Par 3 - Great tribute hole to Augusta 12 and 13.

14 - Great tee shot angles on a shorter 4, and very nice approach. I don't think Mike should remove the trees.

[Craig Disher]

   My only quibbles with the course would be minor. Unlike my good friend Brent, I did not feel the love for 16. On a property that is quite expansive and on somewhat of a grand scale, 16 is the only hole I felt squeezed on. I'm sure from his comments at dinner that Mike Young might have been going for that on the tee shot and , if so, it had that effect on me.  However, that was the one hole that seemed somewhat out of character with the rest of the course.
   

Sunday afternoon, I played from the tees that were directly behind the 15th green. There's no squeezed feeling from there (I agree with you about the tee shot from where we played) and the view actually would tempt a strong player to cut off 90% of the fairway - although with the risk of re-teeing for the 3rd shot.

I also noticed that as you near the 16th green, there's a great view of the 17th in the distance. It looks other-worldly.

[Michael Christensen]

hope everyone got home safe and sound.......great seeing old and new Dixie participants....everyone had a great time and a big thanks to Bill, Mike W and especially Mike Y for putting this thing together......as you have seen from my posts, LShadow is a solid venue....it is a MUST play if you are anywhere near Atlanta....it can be hard in spots, but on average it is a very fair course....

I cannot wait for my next round there (which may be Wed or Thurs! )

[Michael Whitaker]

Michael - Thank you for the kudos... and the expert advice on how to play Long Shadow. Sorry it resulted in a victory for the South!!!  

[Michael Christensen]

Mike W,

You are correct, you won the battle (as did Lee in a few).  But, you lost the war!  

[John Mayhugh]

On the course:

I think the heart of Long Shadow are holes 10-14 for me.

10 - Downhill roller coaster par 4

11 - Uphill Par 4.5 that looks like it could be set in England

12 - Downhill 5, no minimalism on that hole, loved it.

13 - Par 3 - Great tribute hole to Augusta 12 and 13.

14 - Great tee shot angles on a shorter 4, and very nice approach. I don't think Mike should remove the trees.

Mike is right on the money.  The front nine was solid, but wait till you hit the back.  I haven't had more fun on nine holes anywhere else this year. The 10th was probably my favorite.  Hopefully Kyle will post some more good quality pics (great one of the courthouse too!).  If not, I'll try doing it but mine are a little too dark.

Long Shadow is a great golf course.  It offers a lot of visual stimulation and some confusion on lines and yardages, but helps out with really generous landing areas.

This was my first GCA event and I had a great time.  It was nice to meet so many of the guys in person.  I can't wait for the next opportunity.  Many thanks to Bill McBride & Mike Whitaker for making the arrangements and to Mike Young for hosting us.  

[Pete Lavallee]

Thanks again to Bill McBride, Mike Whitaker and Mike Young for putting on an outstanding event. Madison is a great little town; despite the fact that there's no TBS and you can't buy a drink past midnight.

I really loved the second shot interest on the par 5's; no blasting away indiscretely here. The scalloped land features on #12 were really great; tempting the player to advance the ball but making 3 wood a risky proposition.

I agree with my esteemed opponent John, once you make the climb to the 10th tee, it's one great hole after the other. That drop off on the left of the 18th green really affected the outcome of many matches too. Great work Mike!

[John Mayhugh]

Here are a few pictures of the 10th.  The light was not ideal for taking photos, but all of the clouds kept things pretty cool for walking.  I think that's a good tradeoff.

From the 10th tee.  From the tees I used it was a little under 400 yards, downhill, dogleg left.  Bunkers on the left side of the fairway reduce the temptation to cut off some of the dogleg.  There was also a bunker at the end of the fairway, maybe 260 from the tee that pinches in the landing area for those that drive it longer than me.


The bunker on the far right is at the end of the fairway from the tee.  The approach is a wild ride downhill with several small bunkers.


This is taken nearer the green from the right side of the fairway.    The green has a lot of movement from front to back, making front hole locations difficult to get near.


Things get interesting if you go long on 10.


This was one great hole and the start of a really fun second nine.

Fourteen was another of the par 4s that I especially liked.  From the tee, the left side of the fairway was guarded by a few trees, bringing the bunkers on the right into play for longer hitters.  


The approach to 14 is a good example of the rolling fairways and  creative bunkering.


Finally, here's an alternate view of the par 3 13th.  I really liked this tee on the bridge.

[RJ_Daley]

Bringing this thread back up in hopes that Brent has the final holes photographed for my shameless copying and stealing.  I was not on top of the photo mission this time and appreciate Brent's very good recording of the memories.  

Also, Peter P., you have some team photos, I hope.  

[Steve Wilson]

Short thoughts on Long Shadow

First of all let me begin with fulsome thanks to those who organized what for me has been the best of the three Dixie Cups I have attended.  My understanding is that my gratitude should be expressed to Bill McBride and Mike Whitaker—my apologies in advance to anyone I have omitted.  And of course, many thanks to Mike Young for providing access to Athens Country Club.  But it is even more important to thank him for providing, in all senses of the word, Long Shadow.  

While I realize my experience in playing great or even good courses is limited compared to many or even most of this site’s denizens, Long Shadow is on the short list for my top ten.  In managing to play a mere 45 holes last weekend, the extra nine being the back with R. J. on Saturday, I can’t recollect an occasion on which I was able to just “hit” the shot without a plan in mind.  It’s been my experience through the years that as arule the dullest shot in golf is the lay up on a par five. Not so at Long Shadow, as every one of the par 5s required careful consideration of where to place the second shot.  My favorite of the par 5s was 5 or 12 or 18.  It would depend on which one I was playing.  I loved the central bunker on 5 that interfered with the lay up area.  By placing the hazard exactly where we would like our second to end up, Mike Young provided considerable cause for thought and then a lot of suspense as we tracked the career of our balls once they hit the ground.  Both of the groups I played this hole with found it very difficult to hit the green.  In fact, the only two balls to do so landed short and hopped up onto the putting surface.    

The 12th was a visual feast in addition to being a damn fine downhill hole with a plethora of hazards.  I think one person found it too busy visually, but I have to say I was delighted with it.  The two semicircular areas on the right that have been variously described as grass bunkers, scalloped areas, grass hollows, or in Perer Pittock’s phrasing, Daytona and Talladega were unique in my experience.  With long grass on the walls of the hazard and the floors maintained as fairway the degree of hazard was randomized depending on how near the wall the ball came to a stop.  Once again the ideal lay up area was hampered by a central hazard.

The 18th is a great finisher.  Playing uphill, there is a great deal of concealment and deception.  I kept trying to play the hole by staying to the right since I could see my landing areas. As I look back on it, I think a short hitter like me might be best off going up the left side. Laying up the second below the central bunker might leave a slightly longer third but it is more likely to provide a level stance.

I can't imagine any of these three holes ever becoming ho hum no matter how many times they are played.   A well plotted and executed shot will always find a safe harbor, but a marginal or careless one will expose itself to a fate ranging from death to mere inconvenience.   Quirk enough for anyone I should think.

I'll try to get to the short par 4s and the par 3s later.  I know that leaves everyone, especially Mike Young, breathless with anticipation.

[Michael Christensen]

did anyone play a shot from the "bridge" tee on #13??  I've found that a very tough angle when the pin is front right.....

[John Mayhugh]

My pictures aren't the best, but I'll go ahead and post a few more.

The tee shot on the long uphill par 4 11th. It's the price you pay for getting to play 10 & 12.  A good hole too.


Here's the tee shot on the par 5 12th.  The hazard and bunker on the left encourage a tee shot up the right side, making the green harder to see for the approach.


This is the second shot on 12 from the center of the fairway.  Note the bunkers that pinch in the fairway for the approach.


You have to carry this bunker if your tee shot is in the right part of the fairway.


Tee shot on the 13th.  Distance control is a nice thing to have.


Took this one from beside the 13th green looking back across the lake to the 12th green.  Gives you some sense of the terrain.


I only had one picture from the 15th and it's from the fairway.  Strong dogleg left to a green that's downhill.  Nice match play hole.


Couldn't bring myself to take a picture of the tee shot on the 16th since I didn't handle it very well.  Here's the approach shot.  This was my least favorite hole on the course.  There's more landing area than I perceived from the tee.


The 17th is a hugely fun punchbowl par 3.  I guess the backstop gave me confidence to hit good tee shots every time.  It played about 190yds.


The 17th as we got closer to the green.


And the green from the side.


The 18th was a great match play finishing hole. You need to avoid the grassy pit on the left if you want to get your second within any sort of scoring distance.


There was a small pot bunker in the center of the fairway to add risk & uncertainty to the second shot.  The center hole location was VERY well protected by the small bunker in front.  


I wish I had taken 10 times the number of pictures that I did or had a video of the course.  It was so creatively sculpted and bunkered.  I love a course that makes me think and this one was never boring.

[Brent Hutto]

did anyone play a shot from the "bridge" tee on #13??  I've found that a very tough angle when the pin is front right.....

On Saturday I hit a lefty lob wedge shot at the front-left pin. Nothing to it, pin high 10-12 feet right of the flag. Fun shot, probably not so fun to a tighter hole location on the right.

[RJ_Daley]

For the record, John Mayhugh's idea of distance control on 13 was a 7 iron to about <1ft at about 165ish yards.  

[John Mayhugh]

For the record, John Mayhugh's idea of distance control on 13 was a 7 iron to about <1ft at about 165ish yards.  

Any further than that and I would have been outside my make range...

[RJ_Daley]

As I told you, everyone here at home knows I'm 50% from there!  

But really, I was thrilled to see 2 mighty fine one shotters from you, the other being another thriller at the long and scary par 3 17th, using that back slope very well to come in close, and Jason Mandel sticking one also to about a foot on the long par 3 11th at ACC.  

[John Mayhugh]

Based on the way I played them, Long Shadow has the finest set of par 3 holes in the country.