[Tom Huckaby]

David - yep, that's a good way to put it - and my son's soccer team proves that every game.

 

Re golf courses though, of course this is only one way to look at them.  A can envision a course having one awful hole and still being great... which doesn't work for kiddie soccer... but I digress... and I actually can't think of any examples.  But such must exist....

TH

[Eric Franzen]

Rick:

Right on, brother and great point!  That was proven in our recent round... both you and I were left with pretty darn tough pitch shots, tougher than they should have been, each inside 50 yards.

The bunkers up by the green do complicate the go/no-go decision also....

So all in all, #10 is a darn good golf hole.

Which is kind of my point (and Ed's, I think).  If this is the "worst" hole on the course, it's a strong testament to the course's greatness.

TH

I would put #10 ahead of the 18th any day. But maybe that's just me...

[JC Jones]

Hatchet buried.  Im just trying to stoke the fire here.  CD was my first Dr. M and now I'm like a heroin addict.  I need to know, discuss, learn etc. everything about his courses.

I have no doubt that CPC is phenomenal.  I want to learn more about it.  The point of my post, however clouded it may have been.

I do take issue with the premise that being able to hit your ball into a large body of water makes it better than a course where you cant.  CD built on land that is very characteristic of the scottish links courses.  Its basically sitting on a sand dune between Lake Michigan and Crystal Lake.  While you may not be able to hit your ball in either (except perhaps a bladed shot over the green and between the houses behind 18), I dont think that fact takes anything away from the course.

[Tom Huckaby]

JC:
Very cool.

Now as for being near a large body of water, or being able to hit your ball into it... well... it is just a very fun part of this game for very many people, or so it seems.  I would certainly not say that any course near big water is necessarily better than those not near such... let's just call it a bonus.  And if it is a bonus, then it's  BONUS at Cypress Point.  The views are rather incredible, and #16 is very very unique.

Eric:

Most would agree with you re 18, and call that the weakest hole.  I'm one of the crazies who doesn't mind 18 at all.  But good call.

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

Having just praised #10 at CPC, I'll now have to say I prefer #18. It might not be to everyone's taste, but it is undeniably dramatic, both as a round closer and an exacting test. Not only do you have to pick a spot over a cypress tree off the tee and trust your swing and your club choice, but then you're looking at a steep uphill second that demands absolute precision. Too short, and you're rolling back down the hill; too long -- God help you.

(I'll insert again that I think it would be just as a good, if not better, if the tree guarding -- not to say blocking -- the left side of the green were removed. But that's for the members to decide, and they've obviously decided.)

The bonus is seeing the clubhouse on the hill beyond the green, and turning around to see the ocean below you as you hit your final putt. Not bad for a lousy finishing hole.

[JohnV]

I loved 17 at CD.  You can literally hit 5 different clubs off that tee.

Hopefully you'll get the 5th one in play.

I just know that if I ever get the chance to play it again I won't hit driver.

[ed_getka]

JC,
   CPC really doesn't have much to do with the possibility of your ball going in the water. That only happens on #15-17. However, if you had been there on the day I accompanied Tom, Rick, and Ash recently with absolutely glorious weather, a bit of a breeze for #16 to add interest, the seals barking, the sand dunes, and the excursion that takes you through 3 settings along the way, you would get it. You start off heading down toward the core of the course and then into the trees through #6, then you head up into and around the dunes for #7-12, and then build to the crescendo of heading out to the water and rocky shoreline. It is the pacing and flow of the course that gives it the extra oomph in the ratings. You'll understand when you see it some day.
    I don't think anyone can really say CPC is better than CD or vice versa. At that level of golf course it simply comes down to personal preference.
    As I said before, I never tire of discussing these courses.

[David Stamm]

 
    I don't think anyone can really say CPC is better than CD or vice versa. At that level of golf course it simply comes down to personal preference.
     

I couldn't agree more Ed. Well said.

[Brent Hutto]

I think I fully felt the crescendo that Ed refers to when I was standing in the thirteenth fairway. I was hitting the ball pretty well and keeping it in play nicely to that point but then somehow the sight of sunshine glinting off all that sand around the green and the waves breaking in toward the shore and the odd angle of my approach shot and the breeze ruffling the flag just shut my mind down completely. I hit a terrible half-topped slice into a bunker and took several strokes to get down from there.

But then after butchering fourteen as well the little walk to the fifteenth tee brought me back to my senses and I played pretty well (by my standards) for the rest of the round. The final look back at the ocean from the eighteenth green is a very bittersweet sight, no doubt. What a day.

[JC Jones]

   I don't think anyone can really say CPC is better than CD or vice versa. At that level of golf course it simply comes down to personal preference.
    As I said before, I never tire of discussing these courses.

Well said.

My personal preference is for the one I've played.  

[ed_getka]

JC,
   You're such a homer.

[Andy Troeger]

Andy,
   I'm just providing a perspective on #10, I certainly don't expect everyone to agree.
   After my first time around CD I didn't get what all the fuss about #8 was. After a dozen or so playings of #8 I now know (I knew by the 3rd time). As I said these aren't really criticisms so much as nitpicking which is about all you can do at that level of course.

Ed,
Very true, I didn't mean to be antagonistic just presenting another point for discussion  

I felt that way about #5 on the first time around. I can see why its considered great but I liked other holes out there better. I think if I played it more and understood the shots needed to play it well I'd appreciate it more. I just tried to play my usual cut into the green which then hit directly on one of the tiers which led to a short sided bunker shot...which led to another short sided bunker shot. Still made 5...makes it fun!

JC,
I thought #11 was fine personally, although a putt from above the hole is very difficult and leaving it below the hole without having it roll back down the fairway is a challenge as well. Makes it interesting, if I get to play it again I'll probably make about a 6!

[ed_getka]

Well next month you can add another perspective.

[ed_getka]

Andy,
   I'm disappointed that Bob didn't warn you that a cut into #5 is the worst idea in the world (unless you are a lefty). What kind of host lets a guy hit a cut into that green. You might as well be trying to 2-putt from the back of #1 green to a front pin.

[Andy Troeger]

Ed,
He might have given up on me after I 4-putted #4 from 25 feet  

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