Mike Young's Long Shadow

[John_Cullum]

I just had another look at the bunkers on #12.  Are those Halloween eyes?  Scarrrrrrry

I think that is Desmond Muirhead's influence on Mike's designs.

[Mike_Cirba]

Looks very intriguing.

I will definitely seek out this course the next time I'm in Atlanta, hopefully this coming spring.

Mike, it seems that you've pleased a tough crowd here.   That ain't an easy thing.

[Chris Cupit]

The course is going to be ranked in every Top 100 list from the moment it qualifies and not in the bottom 10 either.

The back nine is going to be monumental.

13 is Mike's homage to the 12th at Augusta, though I believe that it also plays like Augusta's 13th green as well. That is one hell of a statement, but after seeing it in person and rolling a few balls on the green with Mike, I am convinced of it.

Phillip,

I have also been to Longshadow and I think that many people on their way down I-20 to Eatonton should absolutely save the gas and stop by Madison because I, too, think that this will be a very good golf course.

BUT,  it's a little too early to claim that it belongs in the top 90 courses in the world!  C'mon!  The back nine is not even open.  Again, I am not at all trying to rain on Mike's parade but your comments are so over the top that they hardly pass the giggle test.

All courses evolve and in fairness to Mike, such lofty claims before the course is completely grown in and open can only set the expectations bar beyond achievable.  All the hype and talk of Top 100 lists is the last thing that serious students of the game should be advancing.

I know you are a senior member but I also can't understand what you mean in describing a par 3 hole that pays homage to #12 at Augusta but has a green that plays like #13 at Augusta.  I've been lucky enough to play there a few times and I dont know how the two holes are at all similar--although they do both have a creek.

Again, the pictures look great and I think the course will be loads of fun to play, BUT before you proclaim it the best of its kind of an era, let's give it at least 15 minutes after it opens for 18 hole play.

[William King]

Phillip,

do you have any contact info: address, phone?
no luck googling

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris,

I truly believe that this course will be ranked and will deserve it when it is fully open.

My statement that #13 is Mike's homage to #12 at Augusta is because Mike described it that way when I was there. What I meant by it playing like 13 at Augusta was in reference to the area between the backside of the green and the bunkers. Just as 13 at Augusta drops down into a pronounced depression between bunker and green edge, so does Mike's. Anyone playing out of the bunkers will face choices similar to 13 at Augusta in that if it is at all short it may not get on the green and just at Augusta, the green runs down and away from the player. In addition, if the tee shot ends up in the chipping area rather than the bunker, the player faces a very real choice of club and how to play, from putter, to bump and run to lob wedge.

I should have said that it plays like the area behind the 13th at Augusta.

Does that make more sense?

Also, what's this "senior member" crap? If you think I am wrong, without understanding or just a plain old idiot feel very free to join the club and take me to task.  

[Chris Cupit]

The reason I mentioned Sr. Member was that since you have made a good number of posts over (I assume) a fairly lengthy period of time, I was surprised at how enthusiastic you were.

It just seemed a bit too much and it sounded more like a comment from someone new rather than from someone who had "been around the block" and had seen a lot of courses at various stages of development.  I guess I was saying that I didn't expect that kind of hyperbole from a seasoned veteran .

With the #13/#12 stuff, I hear what you are saying about the depression (added by Nicklaus I think 20 years ago or so) behind #13.  It does complicate the chipping so I get how that could parallel the area behind Mike's green.  However, the green complexes of #12 and #13 are so enormously different that I was not sure how Mike's hole could be inspired by one hole and play like the other.

I do not disagree that the course will be ranked nor am I saying that it shouldn't be--I am saying that to declare it in the top 90 courses on every Top 100 list prior to it opening is hype and not analysis.

   

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris, you said that, "I guess I was saying that I didn't expect that kind of hyperbole from a seasoned veteran..."

This is the very first time I have ever gone what some would consider overboard with praise about a new course... ever. But I am really that impressed with what I see as a design that deserves to receive critical aclaim right out of the box. After all, every few years there is a course that receives it and deserves it, and so someone has to sing their praises first. I just feel fortunate that it might have been me...

I am disappointed though that you took me to task BEFORE I played Rivermont!  

[Chris Cupit]

Phillip,

Bring your clubs (and your hyperbole) and come to Rivermont as fast as you can!!

Seriously, we have opened all 18 and whenever you and Gary are ready, just let me know.

Chris

[ed_getka]

Mike,
   Congratulations on the course. It looks to be an interesting test of golf.
   What is the average sq. footage of the greens?
Gary,
    Thanks for posting the pix and letting us know about this project. How many greens set up shallow to your approach shot? Could you describe a favorite hole there and what you liked about it?

[Gary Daughters]

Ed,

I'll try to answer as best as I can, and I'll confine my responses to the front nine since those are the holes I played.  I know others may differ, but I can't begin to try to decode a course's DNA without at least sticking a club in the ground.

The way the greens are shaped and the way the greenside bunkers are aligned, virtually any green can set up pretty shallow depending on pin placement.  A hole I haven't mentioned is #4, which was playing about 210 downhill with the pin fairly snug to the edge of a fronting bunker.  It is a very good hole.  My persimmon 3-wood hit 6 feet past the hole and stopped at maybe 10.. I'm not sure how.




One of my favorite holes, and I mentioned this to Mike, was the short to medium par 4 #6.  It's probably the simplest hole at Long Shadow, but I really like the way the small, narrow green angles away from the line of the fairway.  It looks benign, but anything long is absolutely dead.  When the stick is front-right, as it was when I played, you can play safely left and use the slope to kick your ball toward the hole.  When the pin is back left, which is extremely narrow.. well, I'm looking very forward to trying that.  With this photo you have to use your imagination a little.

[TaylorA]

The correct URL for the course's website is:

http://www.longshadowgolf.com

Sorry about the other link - old site.

The site should be up and running soon...

[A.G._Crockett]

I had the opportunity to play Long Shadow yesterday for the first time, and just wanted to bring this thread back up to the top.  I wish that I had the capability to post pictures now that it has greened up, but Gary's pictures are very, very good.

This is a wonderful golf course, and totally different from anything else in the area.  Cuscowilla is the best comparison stylistically, but Long Shadow is much more wild and rugged.

By the end of this summer, with any help from Mother Nature, Long Shadow is going to be the epitome of what so many here like in a golf course:
     1. firm and fast--the course is designed to play that way, and it does.  
     2. wide angles off the tee, with very demanding greens.
     3. a huge variety of possible shots around greens, with chips that could be hit with any of a half dozen clubs.
     4. wonderful variety in bunkering; I don't know all the correct terminology, but there is just a ton of cool stuff in this category.

The front nine is open for play, and is just superb.  The back nine, however, is even better, with every hole a gem.  I played with three friends, all pretty good golfers.  One is very interested in GCA, and the other two are completely indifferent; they just love to play and see good golf courses, whatever that means.  To a man, they loved it.

I'd urge any of you who can get by there this summer to check out Long Shadow.  It is something special.
 

[Tim Bert]

Is anyone else going to have trouble focusing on anything other than Long Shadow this week?  This is a good thread that hasn't been brought to the top for a while, so I thought this might be a good week to get the discussion going again.

Has anyone else played the course recently?

[Michael Christensen]

I almost LMTT'd yesterday and went out to Madison....but I was tired from LONG day on saturday with Clemson in town.


Last time I played it, the greens were sliced but were healing nicely.  We are getting into prime time for weather around here...88, 86 and 82 for Fri-Sun...with nightly lows in the low 60s/high 50s

Can't wait to play this baby under the northern colors!

[A.G._Crockett]

This golf course is going to knock you guys out.  You'll just love it.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Wish I was going to be there to see the looks on your faces. A really great piece of property with an excellent golf course on it. You guys are in for a H-U-G-E surprise.

Honestly, I think you'll be thinking you were on the best Pete Dye course you ever played, only it isn't Pete that designed it. I write this with complete respect to Pete, but Mike Young has created something really special here.

Have some grits for me when your there! (No sugar!)(YECHHHH!!!)

[Tim Bert]

Wow.  You guys aren't leaving much room for this course to surpass our expectations with the reviews.  

If it is half as good as what you guys are saying, then I'll be pleased.  This weekend is going to be a blast and the cost appears to be a steal.

[Mike_Cirba]

John K.,

Mike Young doesn't need me or anyone else to point out his talents and it doesn't make a bit of difference if he's from Swaziland or New Guinea, much less south of Route 80.

I was simply referencing Mike's penchant for playing up the simple grits and cornbread persona here when he's a guy who is as liberal and intelligently intuitive the most snobbish, effete Ivy-league intellectual from Harvard.  

He's just more clever about it.  

[Brent Hutto]

Don't let Mike fool you about the old dead guys. He's forgotten more about them than most of us know.

I asked him several months ago if his 10th didn't borrow from NGLA's Bottle Hole. Mike replied, "Gee wizz, I'm just a country boy tryin' to figure out this fancy architecture stuff. Tell me again about this Bottle Hole thing." That's when I knew it was time to get in the car and head home.

(BTW, Mike fessed up. His 10th is in fact based on the Bottle Hole. I can't wait to play it. You don't see many of them.)

What is a "Bottle Hole"? The tenth at Long Shadow was one of my favorites (probably because I made par there both times) but I can't put my finger on what makes it special. It's just a downwind/downhill Par 4 with an interestingly situated green yet it seems to stick in my mind. Maybe it's just the view of the lake behind it and the fact that it's the introduction to the wide-open back nine property.

[Craig Disher]

If the bottle hole is as good as Long Shadow's 10th, it's a good hole indeed.

Recently, I played a couple highly-regarded courses where I was hard pressed to remember specific holes the next day. Long Shadow was so memorable that I can mentally walk through each round (my game was off so the memory isn't all that pleasant - but you get the idea) and remember each hole clearly. I played on Sunday until the last bit of daylight and enjoyed every minute. It is a wonderful golf course.

Pics are on the way.