News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Castle Course
« on: September 04, 2007, 05:59:29 PM »
Just a reminder that bookings for the Castle Course next year will be taken from 10am tomorrow [5th] .

http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/course_no7.html

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2007, 04:03:17 PM »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 04:48:23 PM »


What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 06:14:10 AM »
The first green in Dugger's post looks really wild.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 07:19:16 AM »
Actually, the whole photo from one end to the other looks pretty wild!

Early reports from a friend in Scotland are that the course is quite difficult and quite daring.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 08:38:42 AM »
On my recent trip we were over on the Torrance course and you get a pretty good view of the whole layout.  Looks very difficult as well a tough walk.  A caddie in St. Andrews told me that it will be very difficult to trolley due to pathways and such.  Pretty much take a caddie or carry.  I was also surprised to see lots of players out on the course.  Must be open to "special friends" of the Links Trust.

Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 09:28:28 AM »
This page is amzing to me to see all the changes made compared to the images posted above.

http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/the_courses/course_no7_toMay05.html

"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2007, 11:32:07 AM »

Tom,
Were you saying daring for the player or daring for Kidd?
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2007, 11:38:57 AM »
I walked the course not so long ago and I am willing to go out on a limb and say that it is better than Kingsbarns and I am a great fan of Kingsbarns.

It just felt even more like a Scottish course than Kingsbarns.  What Paul Kimber and David Kidd has created there is pretty fantastic when considering the very poor quality soil they had to work with especially compared to the links sand that Kingsbarns could play with.

I have about 40 photos that I would post but I just don't have time to load them up to a website but I could email them if someone can be bothered to do it.

There is plenty of width on the course but it just doesn't look like it off the tee but they will have to fight the rough to keep it down with that fertile soil that they have.

The tees complexes are superb with many of them with slopes on them so that you can tee with the ball above or ball below.  The greens are crazy (in a fun way) and maybe too small for the traffic (25 000 - 30 000 rounds a year) they are suggesting.

The biggest criticism that I have is the bunker sand which is almost pure white and looks (IMHO) awful and takes your eye from the course.  I think it ruins what would have been a near perfect course.

They are using the same sand as found on the Jubilee course but the bunkers on the Jubilee are not flashed up like the ones on The Castle Course.  It will look good on photos but it really hurts my eyes.

Brian
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 11:45:43 AM by Brian Phillips »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2007, 11:58:48 AM »
Mike N:  I meant daring for David Kidd, but remember that's based only on others' reports.  There wasn't much to look at when I was last there in October of 2005.  However, I have spoken to David several times since then and he was clearly aiming to do something daring to "wake up" the Links Trust.

Brian:  Interesting to hear your reports and I look forward to making my own judgment.  I am also an admirer of Kingsbarns and so is David Kidd, but I think it's clear that this entire course has been planned with the sole purpose of being pronounced "better than Kingsbarns", since both the Links Trust and David Kidd have a lot at stake in that comparison.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2007, 01:06:11 PM »
I remain to be convinced as to the look of those micro-landscape bubo features.

I haven't played the course yet, (and with the Links Trust pricing structure looking more than a tad extortionate, I am unlikely to for quite some time!), but I have walked it a bit and get to see it a lot from the coastal path when we're working in the area. Greens look like a LOT of fun. Fairways felt a bit 'smooth'. Views are terrific. Scale - epic!

So I hesitate to utter a 'final' verdict. Perhaps with time, everything - including my opinion - will soften...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2007, 01:36:37 PM »
Tom and Martin,

I am probably biased as I like David and Co. and there attitude to world GCA.

I am most impressed with what they have achieved with the soil structure that they started with. When compared to Kingsbarns (which is superb and a lesson in construction) The Castle is even better from that point of view.  I was pretty stunned with what Paul has done there and absolutely love what they chose to do with the tees.

Some of the bunkering is so good that it is a shame that they are going to put sand in it...especially the toothpaste colour sand they have chosen.

Brian
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 01:37:50 PM by Brian Phillips »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2007, 03:33:04 PM »
Brian:

What did they do with the tees that you like so much?

As for the sand, I'm surprised they are going for the flashed-up look in those soils, but I guess they are trying to be different than the neighbors in as many respects as possible.

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2007, 09:29:11 AM »
Brian
I think credit should also be given to Mick Mcshane, Davids lead shaper who also shaped Kingsbarn. Im currently working with him in the Czech Republic and the guy creates wonderful things. I will try and post some photos from Prague, and also from The Castle course.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2007, 10:29:35 AM »
I really like the look of those bunkers Slag posted.  Similar to how bunkers used to look at links like Lytham: before they got so deep with vertical revetted faces and dead flat bottoms.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2007, 01:39:51 PM »
I walked the course not so long ago and I am willing to go out on a limb and say that it is better than Kingsbarns and I am a great fan of Kingsbarns.

It just felt even more like a Scottish course than Kingsbarns.  What Paul Kimber and David Kidd has created there is pretty fantastic when considering the very poor quality soil they had to work with especially compared to the links sand that Kingsbarns could play with.

I have about 40 photos that I would post but I just don't have time to load them up to a website but I could email them if someone can be bothered to do it.

There is plenty of width on the course but it just doesn't look like it off the tee but they will have to fight the rough to keep it down with that fertile soil that they have.

The tees complexes are superb with many of them with slopes on them so that you can tee with the ball above or ball below.  The greens are crazy (in a fun way) and maybe too small for the traffic (25 000 - 30 000 rounds a year) they are suggesting.

The biggest criticism that I have is the bunker sand which is almost pure white and looks (IMHO) awful and takes your eye from the course.  I think it ruins what would have been a near perfect course.

They are using the same sand as found on the Jubilee course but the bunkers on the Jubilee are not flashed up like the ones on The Castle Course.  It will look good on photos but it really hurts my eyes.

Brian
Brian,
I walked the Castle on Friday and agree 100% with your notes.  I love the tees, having some deliberately not flat is a wonderful new design idea, ideal for playing a variety of tee shots. I called them tee-pods instead of decks.
I also like Kingsbarns and I consider the Castle a completely different course, it's the first of "the Castle" type of course, certainly a great addition to the Links and St. Andrews golf.
When you first look at it there is a Kingsbarns look, but once you get on the course it has its own uniqueness.

The local green keepers have been playing the course lately and their initial feedback seems to be "it looks harder than it plays" whatever that means.  

To me the look from the tees is difficult and I expect will be softened before opening, the fairways have fantastic movement (great shaping work), the greens are going to be the most fun I've ever played, and the variety of bunkering is also wonderful.  I was told the bunker sand is darker than the ones on display.  They are topdressing fairways with some very bright white sand and I'm sure the procedure will be continuous for the next 10 years to improve the soil on at least half the holes.

they will have paths for some carts, so trollies and caddies will be in use.

Can;t wait to play it!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2007, 04:25:25 PM »
Jonny,

I know that Mick did the shaping but he still needs to be told what to do and when to stop.  It would still have been Paul directing and I know that both Paul and David would stick to their guns if they thought Mick might be going too far.  But yes I agree Mick should get some credit.

Tom,

Here is a picture of a typical tee complex.








I have loaded the pics up onto this site:

http://gallery.mac.com/niblick/100018
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2007, 04:39:19 PM »
Do I count TEN seperate teeing areas in those two 'panoramic' pics!?!?!

FBD.

PS Nice matching jackets, girls. Was this some kind of EIGCA Pink Lady outing or what? ;D
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2007, 04:43:17 PM »
They are the students of the EIGCA diploma course that I was helping with.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2007, 04:54:29 PM »
Still, though, matching jackets!
I mean, it's only a short step away from Ross Tartan plaid sports jackets, isn't it? ;)

FBD.

The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Castle Course
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2007, 04:56:03 PM »
Just wait...they are not long away....   ;D
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back