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Andrew Cunningham

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Architect Consulting Fees
« on: August 27, 2007, 07:56:44 AM »
A recent post by Mr. Doak got me wondering what type (and amount) of renumeration is paid to be the "consulting" architect of a golf course.  Is there a retainer of sorts just to have access to a firm of choice?  Or is it more like a lawyer that bills only for time rendered?  Or some other combination perhaps.  Could a firm or an individual make a living just as a consulting architect without any actual new builds?  Just curious.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect Consulting Fees
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 08:28:51 AM »
Andrew,

Many do. Even at the top of the new course market, when there were almost 400 courses built, Toro said they were sending out 400 catalogues to gca's. With the top ten gca's doing perhaps half the total new course work, the math means that many, many, gca's somehow survive on remodels, master plans, consultings and perhaps nine hole extensions, alternative courses and the like.

On the few clubs that have paid me a retainer, it's only an up front fee that goes against total hourly services.  If they end up wanting more than the normal few times a year consulting, then they have to pay extra hourly charges.  Then, for major projects, we negotiate a separate fee.

BTW, it seems to me that master plan fees are rising quite a bit.  There was a time when gca's did them about break even as a loss leader to "lock in" the construction phase when something actually happened.  Now, we try to make the MP profitable as well, and also provide more services - mostly in the preparation of 3D graphics using CAD and Photoshop.  I think that helps, because I doubt most club members could actually read the master plan prints very well and know what they were getting.

While I don't hear the details of too many of these from other gca's, I am getting the sense that the "standard" MP fee is $35-50K these days.  I have heard MP fees of as low as $17,500 and as high as $175,000 for a well known architect.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Architect Consulting Fees
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 10:57:27 AM »
Jeff:

$175 k for the Master Plan, not including oversight of construction that it proposed?  And to think I was feeling guilty about what we've been charging ...

Andrew:

I've tried every different avenue under the sun.  A few years ago, we had some clubs pay us a retainer at the start of the year, because it was good for cash flow.  That's not a problem now, so we prefer to charge by the day and not promise our availability in advance.  For some clubs, we provide shaping of the greens and bunkers, and for those projects we bill more like a contractor -- a specific amount per bunker or per green, with design time included.  That's where the real money is, when you've got associates who are also excellent shapers.

And you must not have been reading Mike Young's posts -- there are a few firms who make 100% of their living on consulting, and haven't designed and built a new golf course for several years.  
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 10:57:44 AM by Tom_Doak »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect Consulting Fees
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 11:44:25 AM »

$175 k for the Master Plan, not including oversight of construction that it proposed?  And to think I was feeling guilty about what we've been charging ...


Jeff/Tom -

Based on some MP projects in my area, don't feel guilty.

Bob

Andrew Cunningham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect Consulting Fees
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 10:03:29 PM »
Jeff and Tom,

Thanks for your candid answers.  I find the business of GCA almost as fascinating as the designs themselves.  Keep up the good work.

Andrew