[Jerry Lemons]

In working on a new project, I am having problems finding a good WHITE angular bunker sand that allows much more than a flat bunker design. Even with the new geo's (that I do not think work well over the long haul) anything much steeper than 7% is going to be a maintenance nightmare for the Supt.

What do you do?
1. Go on and design steep faces anyway?
2. Keep them flat and as interesting as possible?
3 Spend a $$$$ and haul it sand across the country?
4 use an off color sand that functions (note Cuscowilla)
5. Minimize bunkers as much as possible?


How much does lack of "showy white face” bunkers have on your impression of a course?

Thanks

Jerry

[ed_getka]

Jerry,
   PLEASE don't use white sand. It looks SO unnatural. Use some local sand. As far as flashed faces, for myself I don't really mind one way or the other. I do expect the bunkers to function as hazards first and foremost, and to perform a strategic function. The aesthetics are last on the list. When it gets to aesthetics I prefer the jaggedy rough edge look more than the sharp clean edge look.
    Good luck with the project.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jerry:

If you're building to impress the cognoscenti in here, then yes, don't use white sand as Ed's take is darn near universal here.

But if you want to please real golfers in the outside world, then the whiter the better.  They darn near universally love it.

I think there are way more of them then there are of us.

I have zero answers to your questions though - sorry.  Just thought I'd give a counterpoint to my friend Ed.

 

[Jerry Lemons]

I think the client will want white sand for the "sales"
I agree color is not as critical. As with anything "architectural", color has a place.

The serrated jagged edges seem to allow off white sand to work better visually. Don't you agree?  

[RJ_Daley]

What part of the country is it in, and do you have a trademark bunker building style?  What is your underlying philosophy in where to site bunkers, or at least the theme on this course?

[Jerry Lemons]

What part of the country is it in,
TENNESSEE

and do you have a trademark bunker building style?  NO not at all.


What is your underlying philosophy in where to site bunkers, or at least the theme on this course?  VAries with site, hole.

THEME? "Classic"

[RJ_Daley]

flatish sand basin, turf mounds, best available local, and tell the client repeatedly how much you are saving him now and in perpetuity.

[Jon Spaulding]

You might investigate what the local quarry/sand & gravel pit already offers in the way of golf sands. If they have the correct equipment they would be able to manufacture virtually anything you want with respect to shape or gradation for a price .

Certainly go with the local color per earlier comments.

[Jerry Lemons]

Not sure you guys undertsand the difficulty in manufacturing a sand. It would be nice to think that a manufacturer (read quarry) could create an angled sand, but although the raw materials in the area may be  capable of being crushed to the right size it still could lack the correct angle and make a poor bunker sand.

Most of the time these quarries have a limited amount of screens and they are too expensice for them to invest for 3000 tons of bunker sand.

This has been my experience and lab testing has proven what good sands are in the area already.

[Jon Spaulding]

If a quarry can make a buck, they generally will. They might charge $50 per ton...and if the market allows they'll make a permanent investment (see Monterey, CA). If not they might rent a crusher or swap out screen cloth which costs very little.

[Eric Morrison]

Go with the original design, using a local sand that meets specs, even if off color. "Classic" theme=no blinding white sand.

[Ron Farris]

Jerry,
I have found the SandaM bunker fabric to work great for flashed up bunkers.  Use the thick version on the sever slopes.  I too am not partial to the bright white sand, but if you aim to please the average golfer-well Augusta syndrome is prevelant throughout the masses.  If you want to please people who populate this site then use a more natural colored sand, if available.  Good Luck.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jerry,
I don't see why local sand of any color can't me made into a positive feature of the course.
Make it part of the course's advertising, i.e., "We here at Rolling Creek Golf Tennis Fishing  Swimming and Canasta Club are committed to the community and the environment, that's why we only use local sand in our bunkers. It helps the area's economy and lessens the need to use valuable resources by bringing it in from a great distance."  

[Kris Spence]

Jerry, have you considered the Felspar Sand from Spruce Pine in western NC.  It is certainly white enough and very firm.  It is angular as well.  I think either Cherokee or Holston Hills used it recently.  Call Rob Hamrick with Golf Agronomics at 828-230-2417 and he can help you.

This is the one and same sand used by that famous course down in Georgia known for its blooming azaleas come springtime.

I have been using Sand daM with very good success recently, it will hold the sand in most conditions as long as external run off is diverted.

Stop by Toxaway if your up that way this fall, we are reworking the other nine holes beginning in Sept.

[David_Elvins]

Jerry,

Have you thought about revetted faces?  You can claim "links inspiration" and it is a bit more unique than grass faces.

[Jerry Lemons]

Kris, Thanks for the info, I look forward to seeing your work at Toxaway.You were real busy when I was there this past srping. Hope it turned out great!.

I have used Sand Dam as well but after seeing some of the stuff show its face again, I am not sold on using it. Besides, my main man wants flat bunkers. Iknow that sand you mentioned is so angular that it will stay on a 4:1 without moving in a downpour.

Sand selection is very important for the lon glife of a good bunker-natural or not.  

David, I have done plenty revetted "sod faced" bunkers and like them. I bet the one  her is pretty penal if you hit it near the lip. One of the songs Lee keeps singing is Recovering from
a bad shot. If you hit it near this lip, recovering is difficult at best in one shot.

I did notice the sand on this bunker was sloped up for the ball to roll toward the bottom making an "easier" recovery.

If I had a sand that could handle the slopes without washing, well, I wouldn't need the deep sod face now would I?

I DO like the look on the revetted!
Was'nt someone messing with old carpet for the faces at one time instead of sod?

[Forrest Richardson]

My rule of thumb: Use whatever sand is within 50 miles.

[Jim Thompson]

My ruke of thumb: Use whatever sand is within 50 miles.

That was damn good advice about four years ago!  I think it still is.

[Forrest Richardson]

In Mexico we used the sand on site — nasty, ill-suited, too fine, creates fried eggs, blows away, and generally smells like the ocean.

Frankly, it's perfect for a hazard.

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