Pine Valley's #2, #7 and #16 greens

[Patrick_Mucci]

GPO,

They can do the same thing at Deepdale and Stanwich, right before they put the windmills and clowns in.

Making sloped greens super fast, to the point that missed one foot putts go 12 feet beyond the hole is no longer golf,
it's gimmickerie, and nothing to be proud of.

[GPO]

You missed my point.  I could make my back yard unplayable or gimmicky if you will, with some creative mowing.  That wouldn't make it the consensus #1 ranked course in the world.  But most on the panel of voters, or anyone who hasn't been fortunate enough to play there in tournament conditions, has any idea just how difficult, and FAIR, the golf course really is.  A golf course doesn't have to be good in order to shave the greens and put pins on slopes.  Any local muni's fairways, greens and hole locations could be set up to be unplayable.  I just think that this one, tee to green, is unsurpassed in testing a player's entire game.  Tee to green.  In addition to messing with a  player's mind.  

The courses you mentioned, both great ones.  But I think Pine Valley, when set up for tournament play, by the club, not by  the USGA, is the most complete, challenging and fairest test of golf in the world.  Without the windmills.

[Patrick_Mucci]

GPO,

I would disagree with you.

I don't believe the architects for any of those courses built those greens contemplating or intending that the greens putt at 12+ on the stimp.

I would also disagree with respect to your competitive but fair statement.

Those green speeds, for those contours and slopes can get on the edge and very easily over it.

There is a point when it becomes gimmickerie, at PINE VALLEY,
DEEPDALE, STANWICH and other courses.  

Restraint, not excess needs to be employed

People on this site complain bitterly about narrow fairways and deep lush rough.  Excessive green speeds are no different

The guy who sets the pins and determines the speed should have to wager a couple of thousand dollars on his ability to two putt from ten feet, then you'll see more reasonable conditions of play.

All to often on this site, if a golf course embarks on a questionable practice they are brought to task for it, yet others are given a free pass.  NO MORE FREE PASSES.
Every course should be judged by the same standards, or criteria.