Eisenhower Park-Red Course

[David Stamm]

Just was wondering about this course that is being used for the Champions Tour event this week. Who has played it and is it worth the time? Is there any Emmet left?

[Chris_Blakely]

Here are some previous posts:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13923;start=msg237746#msg237746

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=22553;start=msg411238#msg411238

[David Stamm]

Thanks Chris.

[Noel Freeman]

I played media day in May for this year's tone-a-mint. Jay Flemma was also there, maybe he'll chime in. For the money, the course is a best bet on LI public.  No earth-shattering architecture, but no archi-torture either.

Really top notch conditioning, little Emmet left, the changes are mostly done in house.  The superintendent does manage all the county courses, manages this one a little differently as one might expect. What is there is a solid golf course, fun to play excellent value for LI (almost an oxymoron). as you can tell from television it is extremely fair, perfect for the Champions Tour and anathema to some on here.  The professionals really like playing there.If that's your cup of tea you'll love it.  If you don't like it, you're really being a snob.

What does it take to become a fully accredited Golf Journalist these days so that I can invited to these media days and play the courses etc.. I've had a story purchased by Travel and Leisure Golf, written 4 articles for Golf Architecture magazine, worked on club histories etc.  What do I need to do? Just simply write a check to the Met Golfers Writers' association and then hang my shingle out as a professional writer?

What then? Can I go to the PGA in Oklahoma and then as an apparent scribbler have the right to interrogate or shall I say interview Retief Goosen?  Maybe I can ask him really important questions like if he watched the Superfriends as a child or if he played Dungeon and Dragons.. Better yet, maybe he can tell me the best dens of inequity in Tulsa!

I do not hang my head out as professional writer even though I love it and won a journalism prize at Lehigh University although I feel like I'm ready to tackle Shackelford or Rubenstein in the prose wars!  Although I feel my last piece had too much in the way of flowery prose on Eastward Ho! even if I did not use the phrase "tour de force" nor have I ever!!!


PS--Shouldn't the Emperor be a professional journalist?  Just this weekend my friend Jim Reilly was recanting reading Tommy's prose in SoCal golf magazines.. Even Tommy says he was an amateur, perhaps one of the best.  

[Jay Flemma]

Hi Bill:

Actually didn't we see each other at Bethpage Black?  The one time I went to Eisenhower Red, we got rained out (they closed the course).  I really like what little I've seen of Emmitt..especially the greens...

Hey BTW, Noel, are "dens of inequity" where they sign bad contracts or not give the proper number of strokes for the match?

And he criticizes my spelling!

[Chris_Blakely]

W.Vostinak

What are you basing your statement that there is 'little Emmet left?'  When I was out there three years ago, there was a lot of Emmet left, especially with respect to the greens and greenside bunkering.  Have they made significant changes in the past three years?  How many Emmet courses have you played?

Thanks,
Chris

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris, you asked, "What are you basing your statement that there is 'little Emmet left?'"

I have played the Red course several hundred times since the mid-60's. It too went through years of neglect before undergoing a series of upgrades beginning in the late-70's.

For example, the first hole was a short par-five that was lengthened, then shortened to a long par-4 and then lengthened again...

Many of the holes have had bunkers completely re-done with some new ones added as well.

It is Emmet's routing with some Tull lengthening and bunker changes and local super's upgrading of conditions.

A lovely course always and a fun challenge as well, especially on the back nine.

[Chris_Blakely]

Philip Young,

I have played a lot of Emmet's courses and compared to many of the others, the green sites appear very similar.  I agree that the bunkers have been altered, but so have many of his courses and other architects from that era.  I am aware of the 1st and 18th not being Emmet holes and have stated as such on previous threads that I linked in my original response.

I do not think it was warranted to post that there is little Emmet left though??? Do you??

Chris

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris, yes I do for there really is little Emmet left as almost every tee has been relocated, most greenside bunkers changed and fairway bunkers added and removed. In redoing greenside bunkers, green surfaces have been altered as well. Other than that it's all the same.  

The fact that these alterations could be done and the course still flow as well as it does is a testament to the very good basic design that Dev did.

He certainly is an architect who I believe was born about 20 years too early. I would have liked to see what he would have done in later years.

[JMorgan]

Many of Dev's designs were sadly built too close to a burgeoning NY metropolitan population.  When the tax assessments compounded overnight, clubs could not afford to hold on to their land.   Queens Valley Golf Club is a very poignant case.  Their last annual report reads like a eulogy for someone who died of a terminal illness.

[Chris_Blakely]

I would love to see an old aerial to compare what is there now with what was orginally there.  It was orginally the #4 course at Salisbury.  

I still contend that many of the existing green sites have a lot of similarities to existing green sites at other Emmet courses.  I am not saying the super did not do alterations, but there is still Emmet there and it is more than a routing.

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris, I agree with you that a number of existing green sites are coriginal, in fact probably the majority, yet all of these have been tampered with over the years with changes in size, bunkers added and/or moved and additional greens installed.

For example, the secondary green to the right side on #6. This green, and change to the fairway for it, were added in the 80's. At the same time the fairway bunkering was altered.

The tee box on #12 was pushed back at this same time as well as changes to 1, 17 & 18.

That was but one of several course changes made through the years.

You would see a far different course on an aerial from the 20's than what is there today... and what is there today is a wonderful course for today's mid-level public golfer...

[Chris_Blakely]

Philip Young

I am aware of the green to the right of #6 that is not Emmet as well as the one to the left of #2.  I figured there has been some to a lot of tampering to the Emmet greens.  I just feel based on the numerous Emmet courses that I have seen that there is more than 'a little' Emmet out there.

As with many courses circa 1917, there are going to be a lot of changes.

I need to email Craig Disher to see if he has a Salisbury aerial.

Thanks,
Chris

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris, the aerial that he would have access to, is he does, is one from the late 30's, which would be a good number of years after the course was designed by Emmet and after alterations had already begun...

Sad to say, whether you see a lot of Emmet in the greens or not, today's Eisenhower Red course has very little of the original Emmet course left to it.

There are features on individual holes that remain, but only a couple, if that many, remain as they were built.

That is a shame for he was and remains an under-appreciated architect.

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