[JESII]

Patrick,

I understand that your age and IQ are rapidly approaching one another so I'll go easy...I am discussing green complexes, go look at my initial post on this thread. That I only mentioned greens in my response to you is not an indication that my sole focus is on the green surface. I see them as a unit not to be seperated.


Secondly, the question of the thread is about creating interest and challenge with an eye on the operating budget. Of the two (green complexes or fairway bunker complexes), which would you deem more important to the creation of interest and challenge of a golf hole for the most people?

Don't rush your answer, if you need a nap in the middle of typing I'll still be here...
 

[Jim Nugent]

I am not against fairway bunkers per se but it's interesting to me that certain great courses deploy them pretty sparingly whereas they are all over the place on other great courses (I keep using Oakmont as an example).

Don't all or almost all the courses in Golfweek's top 10 or 20, modern or classic, have plenty of fairway bunkers?  i.e. Olympic Lake is probably a rare exception.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

David

As much as I want to play CP, there are aspects of the bunkering which I find jarring - just too much going on.  Below are two examples

Perhaps some of your objection is due to the angle from which the first photo was taken, ergo, its presentation, rather than being from the golfer's eye[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

I am not against fairway bunkers per se but it's interesting to me that certain great courses deploy them pretty sparingly whereas they are all over the place on other great courses (I keep using Oakmont as an example).

It's also a curiousity to me that my course (Waterbury) has only 1 hole (the sixth) where fairway bunkers come into play.  I am not sure whether fairway bunkers would improve any particular hole but I wonder how Ross and associates arrived at the decision to have so few fairway bunkers.  Was it cost?  Who knows?  Just a curiousity.

Phil,

I think Ross and other "Golden Age" designers were frugal.
I don't think they ran up the tab in the name of eye candy.

I think a good deal of insight into Ross's design theories can be obtained from reading "Golf Has Never Failed Me".

I think you'll enjoy it and it might assist you in understanding what and why Ross did the things he did at your club.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

JES II,

I've quoted the opening thread to clarify any misunderstanding you may have labored under regarding its gist.

I belong to a course where fairway bunkers come into play on only one hole.  I've sometimes thought that this is a weakness of the course.  On the other hand, one of my favorite courses, Yale, doesn't rely on fairway bunkers nor did Augusta in its architectural hayday.  

The other side of the coin is Oakmont, where the fairway bunkers are among the defining characteristicx of the course, as they are on many links courses.

Given the cost of maintaining fairway bunkers, how critical are they to creating architectural interest and encouraging strategy?
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

I understand that your age and IQ are rapidly approaching one another so I'll go easy...

Sadly, yours are heading in opposite directions  

And, I won't hold your lack of experience against you.[/color]

I am discussing green complexes, go look at my initial post on this thread. That I only mentioned greens in my response to you is not an indication that my sole focus is on the green surface. I see them as a unit not to be seperated.

You didn't state that in your subsequent post and I can only go by what you type, not by what you mean.[/color]

Secondly, the question of the thread is about creating interest and challenge with an eye on the operating budget.

 Of the two (green complexes or fairway bunker complexes), which would you deem more important to the creation of interest and challenge of a golf hole for the most people?

That was NEVER the issue.
The issue wasn't an either / or issue, nor was it a feature ranking issue.

You promulgated that the significance of fairway bunkers was inversely proportionate to the quality of the green complexes.

A premise I refuted, and, I cited specific holes and examples at NGLA which dispatched your theory.
You never addressed the specific citations which represent the diametric opposite of your theory[/color]

Don't rush your answer, if you need a nap in the middle of typing I'll still be here...

I was up at 3:30 this morning and it's now 10:40 pm.
Didn't they tell you, you need less, not more sleep as you get older ?

By the way, there will be no dozing off in class.
TEPaul tried that once and woke up at his desk at 3:00 in the morning only to discover that he had been moved to the edge of the swimming pool.  Actually, he didn't discover that until he tried to reach for a cigarette and fell into the pool.[/color]

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