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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2007, 01:19:22 PM »


You know, I think this would be really appealing if there were a lot of room to play. This would be great on a big green, and if it fit in with the rest of the greens and the rest of the course.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 01:19:48 PM by Matt_Cohn »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2007, 01:38:14 PM »

... Unless you are a scratch player (which, my God I cannot believe seeing just a few of your executed shots ["executed" may be taken a few ways here] as I followed you around Peacock) I really don't think you have a leg (one of Marilyn's perhaps) to stand on about the hole's difficulty.



I'm sure the golfers will ignore your comments on their ability as you ignore theirs on architecture ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2007, 02:42:24 PM »
Matt C. -

Your comment "if it fits in with the rest of the greens and the rest of the course" raises an interesting question and is probably worth a thread of its own.

How important is it that all 18 greens and all 18 holes "fit in" with each other?

The 12th green a Augusta National is likely far and away the flattest and smallest green on the course. It really does not "fit in" with the rest of the greens on the course. I am not sure if "fitting in" really matters or is even good GCA.

DT      

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2007, 03:01:22 PM »
Here is a green that is every bit as wild at that one at Peacock Gap.  It is from Mackenzie's Meadow Club about 15 minutes away.  



I wonder if the members complain about this one or tolerate it because it is "Mackenzie"  ;)  It is much more severe than most of the others.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 03:05:21 PM by Mark_Fine »

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2007, 04:07:55 PM »
Mike — Don't see any comments here that have been ignored. My barb at Wayne was only because he can handle it.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2007, 04:24:02 PM »
Knowing Mike, I'm sure he was kidding too!

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2007, 09:32:32 PM »
Mark,

It doesn't have to "fit in", but it shouldn't "feel weird"!

One of my original comments about the greens at PG is that there are 12 of "these" and 6 of "those".

There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it does make those 6 already controversial greens stand out even more than they otherwise would have. For example, consider that 3 of the flattest greens on the course are at 15, 16, and 17 - and then you get one of "those" on #18.

It felt like Forrest built 6 "project" greens or "concept" greens. Maybe it's more accurate to say that it felt like 6 greens were designed with a very different philosophy than the other 12, which I'm not sure you'd say about Augusta, even though ANGC's 12th green does look very different than the others.

At the very least, having such different types of greens on the same course makes the hand of the architect very obvious. Obviously, most people won't play PG with the architect watching them, as I did, but I had the feeling several times of, "Gee, look what Forrest is doing to me here." Most of the holes PG are very low key, and then you get to a green like 7 or 14 and it feels like Forrest is right there challenging you.

Again, that's OK, but it sure stands out when you only get that feeling on 5 or 6 holes, while the others are low key and pleasant.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2007, 11:24:38 PM »
OK, No. 11...

We left the hole where it is, adding one far back tee. This was among only a handful of places that the tight site (95 acres) would allow length addition. The green is slightly shifted back. It is also a long (front to back) green.

The fairway was widened, although I know you will not believe that. The cart path down the right (only place for it unfortunately) was shifted right by 20-30 feet. The only restriction was the re-building of the fairway bunker — now wider and with significantly more teeth. Short of the bunker and beyond it is a wider, although still narrow, fairway.

The old green was shaped like a mango. The new green is shaped like Marilyn Monroe less her head and legs.

The old green was not guarded by any bunkers, but there were a few in the general area. Today we have a bottlenecked green with two rises and a short bunker (well short) to the left and a tucked bunker to the right.

Yes, it is a very demanding golf hole. length, carry and accuracy are all at play.

Hard par — easy bogey. Unless you are a scratch player (which, my God I cannot believe seeing just a few of your executed shots ["executed" may be taken a few ways here] as I followed you around Peacock) I really don't think you have a leg (one of Marilyn's perhaps) to stand on about the hole's difficulty. Matt Cohen had difficulty with the hole, but he managed to card a 69 on the round.

No. 11 also has options. The player can give in to the bogey early on, avoiding both fairway bunker and the front greenside bunkers. Hit a simple pitch (which will easily find the correct portion of the two-lobed green) and take a 2-putt bogey — maybe a 1-putt par. Nothing wrong at all with that. The alternative is to play with the intruding fairway sand, play again with the greenside bunkers on the long approach, and perhaps start a massive brush fire in the inner circles of the golfing mind.

Yes, the green is hard to hold when the hole is at the back, fall-away portion. For that hole position one needs to hit just the right part of the front green and allow the ball to release. I got into a discussion with someone about this, their position being that the better golfer spins the ball. To which I argued that "The better golfer should be able to spin, not spin or plan on a run..."

That argument got me nowhere, but at least I tried.

I like No. 11, but I would also dread playing it if there were 17 others just as mean spirited. Fortunately that is not the case.

Awwww screw it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 11:41:04 PM by Jed Peters »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2007, 01:43:12 AM »
Has anyone talked to people who have played the course since Thursday?

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2007, 08:02:23 PM »
Has anyone talked to people who have played the course since Thursday?

The IJ did a story, I'm not going to call it a review because he mentions nothing about the holes or course.  A few interesting tidbits.
http://www.marinij.com//ci_7582572?IADID=Search-www.marinij.com-www.marinij.com

With only a few minor touches left to finish, the management team at Peacock Gap Country Club and Spa showed off its spit-shined new product Wednesday, just in time for Thursday's public grand opening.
The semi-private 18-hole golf course, designed by William F. Bell in 1959, has undergone a major transformation after closing in April while Phoenix-based golf architect Forrest Richardson worked his magic on the 6,261-yard course nestled in a San Rafael meadow on the shores of San Pablo Bay.

Purchased in 2005 for nearly $10 million, Golf Solutions president George Lee has offered a new premier membership to regular and new members for a one-time $30,000 initiation fee and is hoping the renovation - rebuilding all new tee areas, building new greens, renovating bunkers and the installation of a state-of-the-art irrigation and drainage systems - will help entice individuals to join.

"We're pretty much booked solid through Sunday," Peacock Gap Director of Golf Ed Peplinski said Wednesday.

Earlier this month, several dozen members walked out of an open meeting in the clubhouse when the new membership rates were revealed.

Golf Solutions intends to include several family amenities, an Olympic-sized swimming pool, spa and fitness

The owners are awaiting approval by the city of San Rafael and have another meeting scheduled for Dec. 4. Peplinski said he is hosting another open house Dec. 8 for interested individuals. He hopes to have a grand opening in the spring and bring in PGA Tour pros Billy Casper, Johnny Miller and Raymond Floyd, who holds the course record with a 63.

On Wednesday, retired salesman Jeff Zeman of Mill Valley was working on his putting and said he can't wait to get a round in at Peacock.

"I'm absolutely thrilled at what I see out here," said Zeman, a regular at Peacock for the last 15 years. "I'll probably be out here a couple of times a week. And the green fees don't bother me at all."

Zeman, a 13.5 handicap, said during the time Peacock Gap was closed he shifted his golf plans to San Geronimo and came away with a renewed interest in San Geronimo, another Marin public course that's walkable.

Green fees at Peacock have nearly doubled since the renovation. A new practice area and driving range has been operational for most of the renovation time.

"I think the owners have taken a different approach to the renovation and I think we've been successful in returning it to the classic that it once was," said Richardson, a 48-year-old architect who has more than a dozen new course designs and renovations under his belt.

"Our work here was to take the original design of Billy Bell and to bring it back to the grandeur and excitement that once graced the course in its heyday."

Richardson, who established Richardson & Associates in 1988, said he first toured Peacock Gap by foot about four years ago during the winter. He was due at the Oakland Airport for a flight later in the day and showed up with his slacks wet up to his shins and his shoes caked in mud.

"That was the old Peacock," Richardson said.

Richardson said the maintenance staff can adjust and monitor the irrigation system from the keypad of a walkie-talkie. The system can also monitor dampness and determine when irrigation is needed or not. It can also utilize weather data.

Five holes are brand new: the 385-yard, par-4 fifth; the 176-yard, par-3 sixth; the short-ish (297 yards) par-4 seventh; and the 485-yard, par-5 eighth. The old par-5 ninth hole has also been changed to a 352-yard par 4. The only hole changed on the back is the 329-yard, par-4 17th.

The Northern California Golf Association recently re-rated Peacock Gap. The rating and slope for the black tees is 70.0/122 for men and 73.4/130 for women. Before the reconstruction, the slope for the black tees was 70.2/123 for men and 76.0/135 for women.

The next phase of renovation is set for the 33,000-square foot clubhouse and the building of a new spa and fitness area. The entire plan is projected to be finished some time in early 2009.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2007, 11:52:20 PM »
Matt — I am back up in SF today and tomorrow. Most comments have been positive. Players are having fun, which was my intent. I did receive a negative e-mail and it sort of lambasted me for some of the wild greens. But, that is to be expected. I really do not think a golf course should receive A+ from all, especially in its very early debut.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2007, 12:09:03 PM »

Mike — Don't see any comments here that have been ignored. My barb at Wayne was only because he can handle it.



Thick skin? No, I just ignore most comments. Some of your's Wayne...they qualify.



Well then, I guess I am confused, do you ignore most comments or not?  




"... and I liked the guy ..."

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Peacock Gap
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2007, 12:21:33 PM »
No, I try to do my part and respond to comments (even though I barbed at Wayne.) Sometimes it is difficult with travel and my day job...but I do respond whenever I have time. If there is something I missed, let me know.


« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 12:22:23 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com