Best Set of Varied Greens?

[John Morrissett]

David Eger raised an interesting question this week: Which course has the best set of varied greens?Everyone loves Pinehurst No. 2, but after a few holes, the next recovery shot around the green does start to look like the one you just hit.  The overall theme of the greens is simple and is repeated.  The same could be said for Royal Dornoch -- your recovery to the 6th and 10th holes will/could be similar.David nominated Somerset Hills, and I can't think of a better one.  There is simply no pattern at all to the greens.  Some slope away (the Redan 2nd), some slope toward you (the 4th and 12th), several slope stroingly to one side (the 1st, 16th)one (the 13th) has a Biarritz - type swale in the middle(Ted -- did I spell it right?), one has random "bumps" (the 8th), and on and on . . .(1) Can anyone think of a better set for pure variety?(2) Is the redundancy of recovery shots at at a course like Pinehurst bad?  

[John_Ott]

That's easy. Pine Valley. There are nineteen totally different greens, no two alike in size or shape. The "permanent temp" on #8 does not count.

[Ran Morrissett]

For me personally, the biggest surprise of playing Pine Valley for the first time was the "alarming excellence" of their greens. I thought PV was going to be just a great struggle from tee to green and I did not realise that on holes like the 2nd, the fun was just beginning, so I agree with John Ott.Crystal Down's are right at the top too.MacKenzie laments the loss a long time ago of some wildly varied greens at Machrihanish.Also, Pete Dye continually refers to the University of Michigan's greens. Who has seen that set?

[Mike_DeVries]

Well, I am biased towards Crystal Downs from growing up and working there, but I still have to take them after all I have seen.The University of Michigan's greens are very good, but not what they were 65 years ago.  The recent "restoration" did not touch the current green surfaces but they also did not restore the greens to their original margins and affected areas adjacent to the greens during bunker construction and drainage work.  The best example of where they missed is at the "boomerang" 6th, where the back portion of the green should have been brought back out further for a great, difficult pin.  Instead, there is a swale there that controls drainage away from the green.  It functions well, but loses a GREAT pin.  Also, the course is fun and diverse, yet cramped on the site in several areas for the amount of play it now receives, still has way too many trees, and is still used for football parking in the rough during home games at The Big House, so you can imagine what a rainy day can potentially do.

[T_MacWood]

I've parked my car on the U of M course once or twice and have seen the ghost of MacKenzie twitching, only to be slapped down by the true 'designer' of the golf course/parking lot Fielding Yost.A future topic might be 'Best course to be used as a parking lot.' Do they park cars on Winged Foot(E) when holding an event on the West?

[T_MacWood]

Although Pinehurst's green are similar in concept, the recovery shots that result are very different. Depending on if you have missed on the short side or not, you can be left with a choice of a putter, 5-iron, 7-iron, 9-iron, PW, SW or fairway wood. The first time I played the course the thing that struck me was how many different recovery shots and strategies I attempted (after reaching the green in regulation of course I would throw a ball off the green).On the topic of the U of M course, I haven't played it, but I have parked it and I thought it made for some very interesting parking.  

[Clark]

I think we are overlooking an obvious choice": almost any Macdonald/Raynor course.

[Tom_Egan]

To Tom McWood --     At least in a few years, there has been some parking on US Open "other courses".  David Eger could elaborate on this.  I do know that there was at least some other course parking at Winged Foot 1984, Oakland Hills 1985, Olympic 1987, The Country Club 1988, Oak Hill 1989, and Baltusrol in 1980 and 1993.  Sometimes there was general parking, sometimes only for a limited number of officials.  From being a member at one of these courses, I was amazed at how quickly the parking damage was repaired and forgotten.

[Mike_Cirba]

After playing over 500 courses, some famed but many obscure, the most varied, consistently interesting greens I've seen are the following;1) Old Course (Like nothing I've seen before or since, I had putts where I could only see the top of the flagstick.)2) Stonewall (The only time I can ever recall my putter feeling like a rope...43 putts later I'm still not sure if it was just a bad dream, or if my ability to read greens is permanently altered)3) Scotch Hills (Formerly the home of the first African-American owned club, "Shady Rest", this nine-holer in NJ by an unknown turn of the century architect has a set of greens which no one would dare construct in the modern age.  41 putts on this card.4) Back Creek - Middletown, DE - Amazingly, this David Horn public layout for a development made GolfWeeks top 100 modern courses.  While the routing and course are quite sound, the greens are each totally unique and add immeasurably to the fun.

[DBE]

I will agree with the good mayor of Pine Valley and say that Somerset Hills and Pine Valley are tied for having the best set of varied greens.  Same state!

[Glenn Spencer]

Any different ideas on this old thread? Does Camargo belong in this discussion?

[ed_getka]

I would put Rustic Canyon up there. Crystal Downs, Lost Dunes, NGLA, etc... There are many candidates, it just comes down to personal preference.

[JSlonis]

Somerset and Pine Valley are great choices. I would think Merion would have to be considered in this discussion as well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JSlonis,

Hollywood's green complexes certainly qualify, and I think Ran would agree with that ...... if he remembers playing Hollywood.

[Bob Jenkins]

Capilano.

All sizes and shapes. The 7th green which is long and narrow, falling off on the sides is fascinating and usually requires a fairly long approach, the 4th which is severly tiered, get yourself on the top and you will have trouble if the pin is below and if vv, you can rarely get an approach putt close, and lots of other stuff. Some take a severe break down slope on the mountain and others look like they do, but falsely appear to break uphill.

Thompson's greens that I have seen are all over the place but that includes only Capilano, Banff and Jasper and Jasper was a long time ago.  I have not seen his courses in the east but assume they must be equally varied.

[Jason Blasberg]

Engineers is hard to beat for variety.  No two alike.  

For modern design my variety hat goes off to Boston Golf Club.