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John Kavanaugh

I'm not interested if you think Klein is better than Passov or Whitten so please list in alphabetical order.  Random for those of you who I know that will make it too difficult to post.  Of course you have Ran and Shackleford and Rubenstein and this and that...I'm curious who else might be out there typing away in obscurity.  I don't know of any X,Y or Z's but Ward has to be at the bottom of the list...alphabetically speaking of course.  Just so we don't name all 1500 guys on this site we should limit the list to published individuals.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Your victory lap through the buffet line must have clogged your brain...was Doak published prior to 1988?

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
1. Matt Ward-clearly the best ;D
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
JES:  I had written quite a few articles for GOLF Magazine by 1988, including some critical of modern architecture ... there was one called "Goofy Golf" which raised a few eyebrows.  The Confidential Guide was my first book.

John:  I don't think there are ten leading critics in existence.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 09:18:39 AM by Tom_Doak »

John Kavanaugh



John:  I don't think there are ten leading critics in existence.

I rarely if ever go to Shackelford's site so I don't know what role he plays as a critic today.  I'm guessing that if there are any true critics out there they would almost have to be bloggers not constrained by advertising or by pleasing a broad demographic.

I'll narrow it down...Can anyone name one leading critic?

John Kavanaugh

Anybody know Jeff Williams?  He is the golf reporter for Cigar Aficionado.  Here is a link to some of his stuff (click on golf): http://www.cigaraficionado.com
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:15:55 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

I just checked out Geoff's site and feel obligated to post this link: http://tinyurl.com/2fdhz7
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:50:48 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
I have no idea who the other nine are, but the leading critic, without any doubt, has to be Hamilton B. Hearst.

Now, if Mr. Hearst would just step forward to accept his award ...
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't think there are ten leading critics in existence.

Where's the market for them?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tommy_Naccarato

John,
When I took that image it wasn't because it was the three best critics (in no particular order) it was because it was the three best golf writers of our generation.  I hope that photo means something 80 years down the road for those wanting to know where we were at, and what we were up to. (our generation--the same way I look back at Scotty Chisolm and where they were at in 20's)

While the image isn't of the best quality I hoped for--given my lack of knowledge for taking pictures indoors--it was great to have all three of them together at once.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2007, 10:52:40 AM »
Tommy,

It looks like Whitten is holding a hat in his hand.  Do you know what logo was on the hat if any?

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2007, 10:57:09 AM »
I am not sure what your definition of critic is. Geoff could be called a critic for he often points out flaws in the USGA viewpoint or actions and others too. However, I think Geoff just promotes thought and discussion on the issues which he brings forth.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2007, 10:57:29 AM »
That wasn't a hat in Whitten's hand; that was the crumpled up program for the Golf Industry Show we were all attending that day.

Ray Tennenbaum

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2007, 11:15:27 AM »
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is, but --

I've traveled with Jeff Williams & played with him, in fact he hired me for my first newspaper job.  He plays a lot of golf, but, and I don't think he'd disagree, he's a travel writer with something to say about the playability of golf courses, not an architecture critic.

There aren't really any architecture critics, per se, some good architectural writers and historians.  Critics?  maybe GS and arguably Ron Whitten, who sometimes seems to like to take somewhat contrarian positions, but I'm not sure his heart is really into it.  Otherwise it tends to be a rather pointless and irrelevant exercise in pedantry and name-dropping and/or spitting into the wind.  All of RW's criticism of Tom Fazio has had absolutely no effect on the demand for Fazio courses (not that I think RW had that in mind).  The architects have all the power! (Partly because the damned architects use that proven tack of themselves writing, the smarter ones anyway -- one reason I'm all for RW designing, it's about time we writers got even).

The economics of the game aren't really conducive to "architecture criticism."  To take another example out of millions: one guy I know used to love railing against this or that trend in architecture but since he got hired to run the travel section he hasn't seen a Greg Norman design he hasn't liked.  Fair enough, in fact it's probably a better use of his talents since his scolding was pedantic and somewhat tiresome.

I suppose it could be done.  I never thought there could be a golf fashion critic, apparently because I never imagined a Marty Hackel.  Maybe I should try to be that high-profile-architecture-critic-guy -- I actually have some bow ties, there's step one.  Next step is to learn to bloviate a la Bud Collins.  The easy part is, you guessed it, arguing that Roger Rulewich was really the designer of NGLA.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2007, 11:34:44 AM »
Ray,

The only point of this thread is to find out if there is anyone new out there writing about golf who would be interesting to read.  That is why I didn't want to get in a pissing match by ranking the critics and preferred alphabetical order.  Even I have been pulling punches the last couple of years in an attempt to not hurt anyones feelings...All the good opinions are behind the scenes.  I never will forget how much fun it was to have a private conversation with a guy who actually didn't like Sand Hills.  I'd like to read something different now and then.  That's all.

Just looking for some new names like Doak was back in 88.

Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2007, 11:47:53 AM »
Ian Andrew's blog is well worth checking out, IMHO.

http://thecaddyshack.blogspot.com/

wsmorrison

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2007, 12:13:40 PM »
Cary,

In Matt Ward's mind he is 1 through 10 of the top 10, and for that matter, 1 through n of the top n critics.  

John,

Why are you trying to rank critics when you (and I) don't even like ranking golf courses?  Why don't you tell us which critics you regard highly?

TEPaul

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2007, 12:44:31 PM »
John Kavanaugh:

What I'm wondering from you initial post and some of your others on this thread is why you are asking this question in the first place?

John Kavanaugh

Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2007, 02:32:13 PM »
I'm getting ready to tee it up so I can't go into it now.  Why don't you guys tell me the point of the thead.  It will give something to think about on the ride home.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2007, 03:14:43 PM »
John,
When I took that image it wasn't because it was the three best critics (in no particular order) it was because it was the three best golf writers of our generation.  I hope that photo means something 80 years down the road for those wanting to know where we were at, and what we were up to. (our generation--the same way I look back at Scotty Chisolm and where they were at in 20's)

While the image isn't of the best quality I hoped for--given my lack of knowledge for taking pictures indoors--it was great to have all three of them together at once.

Tommy,

My goal is for some day, to have you take a picture of me that means something.

JOe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the top 10 leading critics of our day. Alphabetical order please.
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2007, 03:17:23 PM »
That wasn't a hat in Whitten's hand; that was the crumpled up program for the Golf Industry Show we were all attending that day.

I thought it was the manuscript from the just held architects panel discussion.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

David Sucher

The guy who writes
http://top100golf.blogspot.com/
always seems to have something interesting to say.


Andrew Balakshin

The guy who writes
http://top100golf.blogspot.com/
always seems to have something interesting to say.



I think I have seen that guy post on here before.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Quote
Doak was the leading critic of his day and capped Merion West because he was afraid his buddies would think less of him if he rated it or courses like it higher than a big Fazio.  That is what was dangerous.

John,

This is the statement that bothered me on the other thread.


Now he may or may not have been the "leading critic" of his day, but if he withheld his true opinions on a course for personal reasons I would say he was far from exceptional. But maybe he half-acknowledged that when he said he thought he was the only critic at the time...

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'd nominated Robin Williams...

for those who haven't seen his monologue on golf, it's a must-see..

real critic about architecture.