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John Shimp

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Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« on: February 02, 2007, 10:24:54 AM »
I was wondering what is known about C&C's new plans in Palmetto Bluff in SC and Pinehurst.  Also, how is Doak's Rock Creek Cattle Company course coming along and how might it stack up with his best?  Other interesting planned projects?

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 12:40:02 PM »
John,

Coore and Crenshaw and co. are under construction at Sugarloaf Mountain, near Orlando. That one's ahead of the Palmetto and Pinehurst gigs.

Rod Whitman will have two new courses open in 2008: Sagbrush (where I'm at currently) and a nine-hole addition to his 27 holes at Wolf Creek, between Edmonton and Calgary.

The new nine at Wolf Creek will be joined with the South course (opened in the early 1990s) to create to distinct 18-hole courses at Wolf Creek: the Old and the New, essentially.
jeffmingay.com

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 01:37:19 PM »
John,

Upcoming C&C course news can always be found at:

http://www.bencrenshaw.com/MainNews.htm

(scroll to bottom)


John,

Rod Whitman will have two new courses open in 2008: Sagbrush (where I'm at currently) and a nine-hole addition to his 27 holes at Wolf Creek, between Edmonton and Calgary.

The new nine at Wolf Creek will be joined with the South course (opened in the early 1990s) to create to distinct 18-hole courses at Wolf Creek: the Old and the New, essentially.

Jeff,

Isn't Cabot Links also due to open in 2008?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 06:09:00 PM »
John:

Rock Creek has planted seven holes and will plant the rest this spring, probably going into late May or June.  Therefore some holes will be playable late summer / fall, but the course won't open until 2008.  I think it will be a suitable tribute to the beauty of Montana, and one of my top 5 courses, unless the raters can't get over the relative scarcity of bunkers and the subtlety of the edging.

We've also started shaping at Wicked Pony north of the Redmond/Bend airport in Oregon and I think it has great potential; we've been encouraged by the client to make it challenging and intimidating since it is the first of three courses in his project.  They've just hired a superintendent whose move from the East coast will likely make news.

John Shimp

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 10:06:12 AM »
The Cabot Links setting looks distinctive.

Tom,
I've viewed Rock Creek's website and the scorecard for your new course.  Its hard from the website though to get a sense for what your course there will look like or how dramatic the holes might be?  Seems like a neat, small, high end place.
Thanks.

On Crenshaw's website, i've looked at it. There is just nothing there to be learned about their projects.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 10:06:30 AM by John Shimp »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 12:00:11 PM »
Wicked Pony... wow. What's the significance of the name, Tom? Just curious.  
jeffmingay.com

Tom Dunne

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 12:08:56 PM »
Jeff, I thought the same thing! So I used the Google and the first hit was a Frederic Remington bronze:




Jim Nugent

Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 03:05:20 AM »
Tom Doak, don't know how you feel, but I suspect most people would rate your top six courses as:

Pac Dunes...Ballyneal...Sebonack...Barnbougle...Cape Kidnappers..St. Andrews Beach.

If Rock Creek is among your top five, which two will it supplant?  Put another way, since you may not agree with my ratings above, what do you think your top five courses will be, after Rock Creek is done?

Also wondering where you think the Renaissance Club might fit, when it is done.      

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 09:08:29 AM »
Jim:

It will be in good company wherever it falls on that spectrum ... but it's pretty hard to say any more than I have said when the course is still months away from opening.

Could not tell if you were trying to list my best courses in order above, but if so, you probably haven't been to Barnbougle, most people would put it higher than fourth.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 03:56:30 PM »
Anyway you slice it that Top 5 is a great list of courses.

Tom do you know if Rock Creek has any plans to entertain limited play on one day of the week for the general public? It is at a failrly remote site and could attract vistors to south western Montana. I'm only a state away and would be great to take a look at it.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 03:56:48 PM by Kalen Braley »

Garland Bayley

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 06:28:46 PM »
Wicked Pony... wow. What's the significance of the name, Tom? Just curious.  

Wild Horse was already taken or it has been over used.  ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

peter_p

Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2007, 07:12:35 PM »
The press release for Wicked Pony
http://www.bendweekly.com/Business/2598.html

Feb 09,2007
Renowned golf course architect selected to design Wicked Pony, first of three courses at Remington Ranch
by Bend Weekly News Sources

   Tom Doak selected for his minimalist approach to course design and ability to preserve natural environment and topography.

  His first attempt at course design in Oregon resulted in one of the greatest upscale public courses ever created –- Pacific Dunes. In 2006, three of his designs (Ballyneal, Tumble Creek and Stone Eagle Golf Club) were ranked among Golf Digest’s top 10 best new private courses in America, and three others (Pacific Dunes, Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle) were ranked among Golf Magazine’s top 50 courses in the world. Now, Tom Doak returns to Oregon to work his magic on Wicked Pony -– the first of three courses to be built at Remington Ranch, Central Oregon’s newest and finest residential golf community and destination resort.
  Wicked Pony is an invitation only, single membership private golf club that is expected to open for play in July 2008. The first of three championship courses slated for the 2,079-acre project, Wicked Pony will be situated in an exclusive gated community within Remington Ranch. The privacy and exclusivity of Wicked Pony are reflected in just 67 home sites, each averaging 2 acres in size and featuring 300-foot minimum setbacks from the golf course. Ranch cabins will provide overnight lodging for members and guests, and a 12,000-square-foot clubhouse will feature locker facilities and member-only dining. In keeping with the tradition of great courses, and in line with Tom Doak’s style, Wicked Pony will be a walking course with no carts or cart paths.
   When asked to draw parallels between his vision for Wicked Pony and that of an existing course in the United States, Doak chose to mention the basic concept for Pine Valley in New Jersey -– widely considered one of the best and most difficult courses in the world.
   “I’m not saying we will be able to achieve all of the same things, but Pine Valley is a good case study for what we are building,” said Doak. “Since Remington Ranch will have three courses, they were comfortable with the idea that Wicked Pony can be a little rougher around the edges and a little more intimidating than the typical golf course.”
   Winchester Development, the company overseeing development of Remington Ranch, had recently worked with Tom Doak while participating in the development of Stone Eagle Golf Club in Palm Desert, and knew his minimalist approach to design would be an ideal fit for Wicked Pony.
  “The open landscape, varied terrain and natural setting all screamed his name to us,” said John Shaw, Principal of Winchester Development. “Tom had already received several calls about designing a course in Central Oregon and was eager to find a project he could really take ownership of – after visiting the site, he knew Wicked Pony was the opportunity he had been looking for.”
    Unlike traditional projects where course architects are asked to fit their designs into a pre-determined site or acreage, Doak was given the rare opportunity to survey the entire 2,079-acre parcel at Remington Ranch and select his preferred routing for Wicked Pony.
    “Remington Ranch has some abrupt elevation changes, with three ‘shelves’ on the property that have 25-foot drops separating them,” said Doak of how his minimalist style of design fits well for Wicked Pony. “We are able to use those abrupt changes to give the course some dramatic features without having to blast them out of the lava rock.”
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 07:19:16 PM by Peter Pittock »

Tom_Doak

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Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 08:01:35 PM »
A lot of press releases say that the architect was given first choice of all the ground to design the best course possible, though it is not usually true ... land planning considerations usually have some impact on the intended layout.  

However, at least I can report that the cliche is really true for Wicked Pony.  The developer allowed me to lay out a "core" golf course designed for walking, and to jam several holes up against protected state land, which reduced the housing frontage along the golf course significantly, but which will preserve its natural feel for years to come.  I think there are seven holes with development lots to one side, and eleven with no development adjacent.

Now all we've got to do is justify that investment with our work!


Jim Nugent

Re:Early read on new C&C, Doak, others
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 02:19:21 AM »
Jim:

Could not tell if you were trying to list my best courses in order above, but if so, you probably haven't been to Barnbougle, most people would put it higher than fourth.

I don't know what the order is, and unfortunately have not played any of them.  What's real interesting to me is that CK was just ranked 27th in the world.  Yet sounds like Barnbougle, Ballyneal and Sebonack may all be better.  And am I right that you, Tom, personally think more highly of St. Andrews Beach as well?  

i.e. if CK really is 27, the case can be made that Doak already has six courses in the top 30.  

Within x years, betcha Doak has at least ten courses in the world top 50.  

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