Do the best holes play downhill?

[Phil Benedict]

I was watching a match on the Golf Channel between Ernie Els and Nick Price. The course was designed by Gary Player, who was commentating as well. Player said the best holes play downhill and that he has rarely seen a great hole that played uphill. I guess he's never seen the 10th at Yale.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm gonna ride this horse for a little longer..but the 18th at Riviera is way up the hill.  I'm not sure I saw Player's pic in the clubhouse.

[Gary Slatter]

I have played some good holes that were downhill, and I've played some good uphill holes, but most of the holes that I consider great are relatively flat (+/- 30feet).  I have grown to dislike downhill par three holes that drop more than 90feet. It's usually a waste of a nice hill, I'd prefer to use a hill in the drive on a par five or, like in Kapalua's 6th hole, a driveable 400 yard par 4.

[Chris Cupit]

With all due respect to a great champion, having played two Gary Player courses I am not sure I would look to him for advice on what makes a great golf hole!

Lots of good uphill holes, here's a few:
#9 Shinnecock
#8 & #15 RCD
#5 ANGC
#7 WFW
#18 NGLA
#18 Baltusrol lower
#10 (I think--the par 3?) Baltusrol upper
 

[Chris Cupit]

I have played some good holes that were downhill, and I've played some good uphill holes, but most of the holes that I consider great are relatively flat (+/- 30feet).  I have grown to dislike downhill par three holes that drop more than 90feet. It's usually a waste of a nice hill, I'd prefer to use a hill in the drive on a par five or, like in Kapalua's 6th hole, a driveable 400 yard par 4.

Gary,

I agree--most of the ones I really enjoy also seem to be relatively flat with interesting contour from tee to green.

[Doug Ralston]

I have also played several excellent up and down holes, and no few down and ups also! I admit that most of the holes I love are NOT flat.

To make myself a liar though, #15 at Dale Hollow is a pretty flat par-3, though it crosses a chasm rather like Bryce Canyon [as well as a nice rock wall, and is dead front and back. You have room left and right, but DO pick the correct club or tee again!

#10 on the same course tees steadily upward to a neat crest, followed by a quick drop and a 120-150 approach across a lake fronting all be the far left edge. Pretty and challenging. Dale Hollow is a hidden gem in downtrodden Kentucky.

In the spirit of my continuing effort to get some of you there, here is the '2007 GKL Screensaver'. Download it, set it to one minute, and see if perhaps there is a hole or two that conduces to your expectations of good golf.

www.golfkentuckylinks.com/images/Golf%20Kentucky%Links%202007%20Screen%20Saver.exe

Let me know if this works. If it doesn't you can go onto the website and download it. Enjoy. You may just want to keep it.

Doug

[wsmorrison]

Although Player might actually mean it, I don't consider the notion that the best holes play downhill anything more than a catchy phrase.

Great holes can be uphill, downhill and flat.  Anything but upside down.

[Philippe Binette]

I am not sure the best holes plays downhill...

but one thing that was almost a constant in Scotland is that some of the best holes are the one where it's hard to stop the ball on the green (run away greens, downwind holes etc...)

I noted that one of the great thing about the Old Course is the fact that the ball can run off the green easily on any side, which put a premium on what the old guys call the weight of the shot (the speed at which the ball arrives on the green).

on most North American courses, the greens are almost always sloping back to front and there's mound or rough to stop the ball at the back of the green (except Pinehurst no 2 among others). What it causes, the ball is easier to stop, making hazard less important since the good players fly over them and the ball stays on the green. In that regard, having a good angle is not that important.

[Jon Spaulding]

Perhaps Player should come back and play my home club that he designed; most of the holes are uphill or downhill.....and none of them are very good!

[jeffwarne]

My favorite is hiking uphill so you can play downhill-again
 

I'm in the minority in that I actually like driving uphill, or over a hill.
I truly don't care as long as I don't have to consistently walk uphill to get to the architect's obligatory vistas and downhill tee shots.
Rolling terrain should produce a variety of rolling shots-Shinnecock makes wonderful and varied use of the areas of elevation
(Although I usually skip the walk back and UP to 15 tee)

[Jeff_Brauer]

Player says that because it makes all the features visible, as most of you know.  And, features that can't be seen are more difficult to factor into strategy, and not as attractive when you can't see them.  We may be tired of the feeling that there is an absolute need to make every hole downhill, but it does have its advantages.

I think its a matter of percentages, not absolute.  While you can all name great uphill holes, I suspect that if you went through Golf's Top 500 holes, most would be downhill or gently rolling.  Player says they are "rare" which might mean anywhere from 2-10% of them, which seems about right to me.

[Justin Gale]

I do enjoy downhill holes better than uphill - maybe that relates to my fitness level....

A recent post on GCA hypothesised that the most enjoyable golf shots are those which take the longest - a la Tigers chip at the 16th (?) at Augusta. The amount of hang time you get with a steeply downhill hole makes the anticipation of where your ball will end much greater, and more enjoyable in my opinion.