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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« on: December 15, 2006, 10:04:06 AM »
Tom, this quote came from a recent post of yours on the Merion thread, hope you don't mind my copying it over here.

Quote
I will indeed. The "Maintenance Meld" concept always needs updating and analyzing. The thing about it that's becoming more apparent as time goes on is just how "course specific" it really does need to be.


I know this is a complicated subject, but I think it is very interesting and important...is there a way to categorize the steps or actions that need to occur to implement (or at least attempt to) your IMM?


JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2006, 10:57:36 AM »
Good luck, Jim.  I asked for an operational definition of IMM once upon a time and was met with a stony silence from the King of Posts himself.  And all I want to do here is learn something from these "Old" Masters.... :D

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2006, 11:01:00 AM »
Yeah, your probably right JM. I hate to say it, but I think our fearless leader might have stretched beyond his grasp on this concept.  ;)

Maybe if I have Tom MacWood challenge its feasability he'll go after it like a dog on a bone.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2006, 12:36:07 PM »
Guys, if I understand what you are asking correctly then it is something that is so unique to the individual golf course that it is like asking how long is a piece of string. It is something that takes many seasons to develope and it will change constantly to keep up with the changes on the course.

The only things that should remain constant are the desired results and their definitions.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2006, 12:42:57 PM »
Sully,
 I won't begin to speak for Tom, but from my general observations, a good place to start would be to mimic Mother Nature's watering schedule.

I suspect most standardly maintained courses would need to re-evaluate where their fairway's and collar's mow lines are cut, and how the new firmer surface, including the rough, reacts to different trajectory shots.

Since this concept is such a course specific exercise. and, most courses have spent decades homoginizing, finding the proper IMM path will likely take some risks and alot more thought. It's a long-term play where short-term losses should be expected. But the end result will be a healthier turf, requiring less wall to wall coverage of potentially harmful chemicals.

Hopefully this freshman-like analysis will spur the curator of all things meldy to respond.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2006, 01:20:17 PM »
Jon and Adam,

I am sure you are both correct.

I do think that if this concept is going to be discussed at all there should be a way for superintendents, green committees and clubs to share ideas and discoveries without being under the impression that the journey is so "course specific" that what happens at one course is not relevant as a guide post for another.

I wonder if the steps a course in suburban Philadelphia (only because it's my hometown) takes should be relevant to its neighbors. How about all courses within a comparable climate range? How about categorized by grass type? Soil type?

We all have an idea of the end result but few (certainly not me) have an idea how to get there. Establishing pools of courses with likely similar circumstances should help build a resource tool.

What would have to be the key determining factors in establishing a course of action? This question is intended to be asked assuming the club has committed to go this route? I guess it could also help educate on the risks and rewards of beginning down this road as well.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2006, 01:49:42 PM »
One of the major separation points would have to be the style of golf the course was designed for.

It's pretty much general consencious that the best courses are those that can accomodate all levels and styles of player. A great aerial assualt player can play his game on any canvas. While a ground reliant, or proficient, player is almost always precluded from playing his game on the AA style design.

With Modern equiptment's design focus on the aerial, most "golfers" ( I use the term loosely) will likely react negatively to the notion of unpredicatability.

This clearly is an inherent bias of the modern game.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2006, 02:14:18 PM »
And then it should become their responsibility to adapt...either learn how to hit their shots higher and more solid so they do come down with some control even on the firmest surface, or use the ground...period.

I'm not buying that soft and slow is better for anyone from a playability perspective...and I have yet to hear a superintendent state unequivically that soft lush turf is healthier then firm sturdy turf. Maybe it is, I haven't heard it though.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2006, 02:19:09 PM »
Jim,

It's everything and it's nothing.

It's the beginning and the end.

It's the sum of all of our hopes and the weight of our of our fears.

It's fixed and static, yet variable and dynamic.

It covers the widest spectrum yet is narrowly focused.

It's all of these things, and none of them...

all at the same time, and never before or after this moment.

It's IMM.

Say it, sing it, chant it.  

IMM.

Now, do you understand grasshopper??  ;)
 

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2006, 02:24:33 PM »
One course I played recently verticuts once a week.  Another nearby course verticuts twice a year.

Is there is a single ideal depth/pitch/frequency for ideal active turfgrass thatch control?

http://www.bigga.org.uk/greenkeeper/viewstory.php?id=914

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2006, 02:38:48 PM »
Jim,

It's everything and it's nothing.

It's the beginning and the end.

It's the sum of all of our hopes and the weight of our of our fears.

It's fixed and static, yet variable and dynamic.

It covers the widest spectrum yet is narrowly focused.

It's all of these things, and none of them...

all at the same time, and never before or after this moment.

It's IMM.

Say it, sing it, chant it.  

IMM.

Now, do you understand grasshopper??  ;)
 

It's all becoming so clear...and yet so so so unclear...


Mike_Cirba

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2006, 02:40:46 PM »
Precisely!


















Not.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2006, 02:43:06 PM »
Quote
Conclusion
To sum up the key elements of a successful thatch control program:
• Don’t be complacent. Diligent soil profiling may reveal more thatch than you might imagine.
• Don’t over feed or over water. These are two of the most common causes of thatch.
• Do aerate regularly
• Do verticut regularly. A little and often approach is by far the safest and can be highly effective in reducing thatch layers as deep at 3” down to an optimum level within a couple of seasons.
• Do scarify if you have a serious thatch problem but use discretion as to how deep you go and when you do it. Aim for periods of strong growth, to give a quick recovery and avoid times when Poa Annua is seeding.
• Do verticut deeply, or scarify, before using biological thatch control products, to enhance their effectiveness.
• Do keep a good supply of oxygen into the thatch zone by regular sarel rolling and deep slicing.
• Do topdress after scarifying and hollow coring but be certain to use a compatible, free draining material and to brush it in evenly.

When does Poa seed? Is it a certain time of year?

What does "scarify" mean?

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2006, 04:28:26 PM »
When does Poa seed? Is it a certain time of year?

Whenever it grows.

http://www.hort.iastate.edu/directory/people-files/nchris/RRBGrounds.pdf
http://www.bigga.org.uk/greenkeeper/viewstory.php?id=331

Quote
What does "scarify" mean?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scarify

I believe it's a means to dethatch rather more quickly and intensively than verticutting.  Scarifying causes more surface damage too.
http://www.sisis.com/mach/ine13.html

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2006, 04:38:33 PM »
Joe,

Thanks for the links.

According to Nick Christians, Poa seeds in the spring.

According to Marcus Oliver you should "scarify...during strong periods of growth...and avoid when Poa is seeding"

Isn't the spring a strong period of growth in most areas?

TEPaul

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 07:04:18 PM »
I'm sorry not to have contributed to this thread yet but I promise I will. However, with some of the posts on here I don't know what you need me for. Some of them are really good, particularly Adam Clayman's.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 07:35:40 PM »
What are you doing Tom, going back and reading all the gobbly-gook in notes pads you've scribbled out over the years about the mysterious IMM?

Kyle Harris

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2006, 07:42:54 PM »
Jim,

To me, IMM starts and ends with the understanding of just what the golf architect was trying to challenge when building the hole or the course.

How one maintains the golf course to that end is the exact thing the superintendent is attempting to meld - the maintenance program and the architecture.

The means by which these standards are achieved are the program, be it over-watered Poa or firm and fast Bent.

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006, 03:30:36 AM »
There are some very good answers here especially Jes's quote. I think the definitive work on the subject would be 'The Spirit of St Andrews' where the good doctor describes at length what the ideal should look like and indeed the reasons as to why it is the IMM. How that happens is something that all good greenkeepers would instinctively know but unfortunately it is more a question of getting around the club politics and how one can carry out the necessary maintenance operations and yet still keep a job. There are just so many golfers that haven’t a clue.

Grant Davey

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006, 09:37:22 AM »
Scarifying is aggresive thatch removal and what American Superintendents refer to as verticutting. An example of scarification would be to set the implement to a depth which would be in or below the thatch layer. This is sometimes confused with grooming which generally targets the canopy and above ground growth points of the plant.


Grant Davey

TEPaul

Re:Implementing the Ideal Maintenance Meld?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006, 12:32:49 PM »
JESII:

I'm getting my face shaped for a comprehensive report and explanation of all things IMM, but I'm still in the process of psyching myself up for it. It's sort of like a boxer in the dressing room with his trunks and robe and gloves on bobbing and weaving and throw hooks and jabs at the air and at an imaginary opponent. ;)

Oooops, drat, damnit to Hell, I just knocked out some putz who obviously wasn't imaginary. It looks like Moriarty or MacWood lying there on the dressingroom floor.  

Oh well, shit happens.  ;)