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Adam Clayman

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Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« on: December 11, 2006, 03:57:32 PM »
 Rank/Location/hole#/par/yardage/score avg./O/U par
1  Poppy Hills  5  4  426  4.492  0.492  
2  Augusta National GC  11  4  505  4.474  0.474  
3  Winged Foot Golf Club  1  4  450  4.471  0.471  
3  Winged Foot Golf Club  18  4  450  4.471  0.471
5  TPC Sawgrass  18  4  447  4.46  0.46  
6  Winged Foot Golf Club  14  4  458  4.458  0.458  
7  Plantation Course at Kapalua  3  4  380  4.455  0.455
8  Quail Hollow CC  18  4  478  4.449  0.449  
9  Torrey Pines (South Course)  12  4  477  4.426  0.426  
10  Plantation Course at Kapalua  2  3  218  3.42  0.42  
11  The Country Club at Mirasol  14  4  470  4.419  0.419
12  East Lake GC  5  4  520  4.407  0.407  
13  Cottonwood Valley GC  1  4  448  4.405  0.405  
14  Winged Foot Golf Club  2  4  453  4.4  0.4  
15  Firestone CC (South Course)  4  4  471  4.397  0.397
16  Winged Foot Golf Club  9  4  514  4.391  0.391  
17  Doral Golf Resort & Spa  18  4  467  4.388  0.388
18  Waialae CC  13  4  478  4.384  0.384  
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 04:00:32 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Bob Jenkins

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 04:07:05 PM »

Thanks, Adam.

Interesting that there is a par 4 on that list that is under 400 yards, ie Plantation #7.

Adam Clayman

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 05:07:57 PM »
Bob, The Plantation is well represented.

Those who know the holes on Maui, can you elaborate on what the major cause for the difficulty? Certainly not length. Perhaps with the wind's effective length?

Is it just me or does that Poppy Hills hole standout like a sore thumb?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Paul Jones

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 05:15:43 PM »
Adam,

Where did you get the list?

Thanks,
Paul
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Adam Clayman

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2006, 05:39:57 PM »
Paul, I keep my own statistics. It certainly wasn't from the PGATOUR website or anything. ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jordan Wall

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2006, 06:29:05 PM »

Thanks, Adam.

Interesting that there is a par 4 on that list that is under 400 yards, ie Plantation #7.

Bob,

I think it was #3.

#7 is a 500 yard par-4 that is a blast to play.
Way downhill, way downwind, and great views.

Its quite a course.

Jordan

Tim Gavrich

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 07:27:43 PM »
Yes, #3 at Kap Plantation is the 7th hardest hole on Tour, according to the list.  I've never played the hole properly, but I remember from the Links LS computer game that it is straight uphill and into the teeth of the typical wind there.  So, its 380 probably plays like 450, while the holes like 1, 7, and 17 (all longer than 480, I believe) all play like 400.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Jordan Wall

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2006, 07:31:35 PM »
Yes, #3 at Kap Plantation is the 7th hardest hole on Tour, according to the list.  I've never played the hole properly, but I remember from the Links LS computer game that it is straight uphill and into the teeth of the typical wind there.  So, its 380 probably plays like 450, while the holes like 1, 7, and 17 (all longer than 480, I believe) all play like 400.

Yes, Tim, that is correct.

It is a tough hole to say the least.

The one I like is #6, where it is 380 or something and driveable
 8)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 07:32:26 PM by Jordan Wall »

Brad Tufts

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 10:52:57 AM »
Although if you hit too much of a fade on #6 going for that green, you will be faced with primordial jungle...you might find Dr. Livingstone down there....

I like #5...two rounds in eagle and birdie.

Kapalua Plantation  #5  5  520  3.500  -1.500

 :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 10:54:57 AM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

JohnV

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 11:43:29 AM »
Of course, holes like #13 at Waialae are really a par 5 and all they did was change the par.

I remember one stupid announcer the year they did that say that the hole had gone from the easiest one the previous year to the toughest that year.

David Stamm

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 11:48:55 AM »
I can attest in regards to the 12th at Torrey Pines. Brutally long and into the wind!! #4 there is pretty damn tough as well.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jay Flemma

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 12:18:33 PM »
Nice to see one of my faves take its perennial top spot in the list...I love 18 at Sawgrass.

With 5 in the top 20, I have to say, Winged Foot lived up to its Graveyard of Champions billing...

George Pazin

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 12:21:35 PM »
If I were a betting man, I'd bet whatever the US Open course is every year, it probably places several in the top 18.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Boerger

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 01:29:53 PM »
Exactly what George said. Winged Foot certainly doesn't play this difficult other times! Plus, I've only played WFW 9 as a par 5!
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Jay Flemma

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 03:41:10 PM »
You're absolutely right about that...had it been par-72 the wining score would have been -3, not +5

But that being said, the USGA deflates the score to par every year by reducing to 70...I still think Winged Foot is the toughest test of the informal rota of US Open courses...

tlavin

Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2006, 05:27:46 PM »
You're absolutely right about that...had it been par-72 the wining score would have been -3, not +5

But that being said, the USGA deflates the score to par every year by reducing to 70...I still think Winged Foot is the toughest test of the informal rota of US Open courses...

Jay,

I think you may be correct, but we'll see next June, because Oakmont just might be tougher, due to the well chronicled difficulty of the greens and many other factors that have been discussed in great detail...

Sébastien Dhaussy

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Re:Tour's 18 Toughest Holes '06
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2006, 07:39:56 AM »
Bob, The Plantation is well represented.

Those who know the holes on Maui, can you elaborate on what the major cause for the difficulty? Certainly not length. Perhaps with the wind's effective length?


Adam,

From an AP article this morning (in France) :

"And as an example of how weather dictates everything in golf, consider the Plantation Course at Kapalua. Ernie Els set the PGA TOUR record in the '03 Mercedes Championships by winning at 31-under par. This year, with slick greens that were even faster because of the blustery conditions, the Plantation Course had two holes ranked among the top 10 -- the 380-yard third hole was at No. 7 and the 218-yard second hole came in at No. 10."
"It's for everyone to choose his own path to glory - or perdition" Ben CRENSHAW