Y Hole

[Bill Gayne]

The routing of the seventh hole at Ballybunion Old is essentially a Y with alternate greens.

http://www.ballybuniongolfclub.ie/old_course.htm

It became a Y hole as a result of restoration work of the membership and Tom Watson. Every time that I've played the hole it has been to the right green.

My question is: For designing and building a new course would a Y hole ever make sense? If the two sides were equal then there would only be a need for one side. If one side was superior to the other than the inferior side wouldn't be needed.

Are there any real good originally designed Y holes?  

[Tom Dunne]

Bill,

I see what you're saying, but what if the two sides are both good, just in different ways? Sure, you could probably parse the question long enough to determine that one is better, but that doesn't necessarily mean the other shouldn't exist.

Take the ninth at Pacific Dunes. I think the upper green probably makes for the better hole of the two, but when the lower is in use it definitely changes your sense of where you'd like to place your tee shot. And I've always liked how those two greens tie in to two different tees on the par-three tenth. JMO, but I think playing to that upper green on #9 (the tougher of the two) makes for an easier tee shot on #10 (though from that spot high in the dunes the shot is more affected by the wind). You can't survey the hole as easily from the lower tee on #10, and while you're shielded from the wind I always have a bit of a harder time with this version of the hole. That's all just my subjective take, but I think it does illustrate the flexibility of Pacific Dunes, the many possibilities the course introduces on a day to day basis... that two-green system on #9 is just one reason why the course is so much fun.

[Bill_McBride]

I hear they did away with the left, lower green at #12 (?) at World Woods Pine Barrens.  I always had the upper right green, a real battle, and the lower green didn't have much going for it.  That was a true Y hole, with two completely different greens and surrounds.

[Karl Bernetich]

I can think of 2 examples of modifying a hole with a second green.

1st was a VERY small green, heavy traffic and limited walking entry and exits.  The second green relieved a lot of pressure on the original.  And it was done in such a way as to be nearly as challenging as the original IMHO.

The 2nd was the original (left) green was low and had water / drainage issues.  A new green was built level and on the right.

In both cases, simmillar club selection for the approach, but very different strategy from the tee.

As for building it on a new course, expense of the extra
green(s) would lessen the appeal.  But I would think a GCA would love to have the option in their "tool box."

[Jim Sweeney]

Greenbriar Old White #16(??) has alternate greens. Not sure if the right hand green is original. The left hand green is longer and plays across a river.

Indian Ridge in Oxford, Ohio has a Y hole. The left leg is much longer- to long for the majority of golfers; thus the right side is usually in play. However, the right green is pithched front to back and is a difficult short iron, a good hole on its own.

[Doug Siebert]

Is that green on the left a new addition or has it always been there and I just didn't notice it (I must have been hugging the ocean closer than I should!)

I can't see how playing it to the left could even be the merest shadow of the green on the right.  That's the most exposed green on the course, the wind positively howls there.  To the level I'm sure some would claim it is unfair, at least when it was blowing about 40 mph last time I was there.  But that's what golf in Ireland is all about!

I suppose someday the sea will claim the one on the right, but I hope that doesn't happen until after I'm gone...