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Jay Carstens

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Early Architecture in America
« on: November 18, 2006, 10:25:16 AM »
We talk a lot about classic vs.modern here with so many great examples of both but after reading Stuart Bendelow's new biography about his grandfather Tom, I'm curious now about existing early works by anyone that would be considered recommended viewing [or playing].  These pioneers seem to deserve a lot of credit for getting people out on the course playing golf and with travel so much more difficult back then, they must have spent countless hours on the road.  I'm sure they had their motives but looking back at it now it truly was an unbelievable undertaking. Where can a guy go to see some of this stuff and would hickories be required equipment?
Play the course as you find it

TEPaul

Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006, 11:00:41 AM »
Jay:

This is a good thread subject but other than just asking where some of those old "Eighteen Stakes on a Sunday Afternoon" type courses are to play or look at, I'd like to see this accompanied by a discussion of just what really was going on in golf and architecture that far back.

For instance, I'm very happy to hear that Chris Clouser is looking into perhaps doing a book on the very early era we sometimes refer to as "Victorian" architecture or even "Dark Age" architecture.

Obviously an evolved off-shoot of that could be that time and those architects, like Bendelow and Findlay who truly could be considered the Pied Pipers of golf in America. Obviously they were trying to popularize the game in America first and not necessarily trying to build the greatest courses around.

It was also a simple matter of time and economics.

We should probably not look at some of those early architects in inland England or in America as not talented. We should probably understand better the evolution of this entire art form. At various points along the way certain things, certain requirements, certain expectations just hadn't arrived yet.

Sometimes when we think of art forms and their histories we think of them in terms of the many many centuries they've been evolving.

We should remember that the art form of golf course architecture is to date just a little more than 150 years old. Perhaps in the broad scheme of things it's still in its infancy---eg perhaps its early teenager years.  ;)


michael j fay

Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2006, 11:15:14 AM »
The earliest Architecture in America has all but disappeared.

Anything built prior to 1900 became obsolete with the invention of the Haskell ball. Pretty much everything that existed at that time has been redesigned.

The earliest remaining early course of note is Oakmont in Pittsburgh which was over 6,500 yards in 1903. Par was 81 or 82.

Many of the courses that were redesigned by Ross were really new golf courses on previously built courses.

Examples of this are Newport and Shinnecock which held the earliest championships.

Myopia Hunt Club was an early championship venue but I am unsure of the history.

The Bendelow credited courses are interesting. He laid them out and then they were built by whomever had the laborers and the equiptment. In the 1920's he actually built some courses, but I haven't got Stuarts' book as yet.

Arthur Fenn actually designed the first resort course in the US at Poland Springs in Maine in 1894. Ross built a different course over Fenns' work in 1914.



TEPaul

Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2006, 11:52:54 AM »
Michael:

About two years ago I took a ferry across Lake Champlagne to get to Westport NY. By a mistake I took a ferry much farther up the Lake than I should have and I had to drive down the New York side of the lake.

About two minutes off the ferry I spied a single fairway amongst the trees to my right that was the damnedest example of Victorian Era berms across the fairway and some really amazing huge Dragon's Teeth mound across the fairway.

Well, naturally I did one of those 180 degree police power-slide turns and sought the course out.

It was a very simple place, so simple in fact that there was no one there, just a sign that asked golfers to put a little money in a box.

But it had to be from back into the Victorian Age, and perhaps even the 1890s.

Damnedest example of Victorian era golf architecture I've ever seen in person.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006, 12:07:45 PM »
Jay/Tom,

Upstate NY and other nooks and crannies in New England seem to have a number of these old rudimentary courses dating to the 1890s.  

Michael's correct in his assessment that many of the courses have changed or been added to over the years, but if we use pre-1920 as a marker, then you can toss a bunch of PA & NJ courses into the mix, as well, many of them largely untouched.

Heck, even Merion West at all of 5900 yards falls into that category, and has some wonderful old architectural features and several holes that would never, ever be built today, sad to say.


D_Malley

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Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2006, 12:32:50 PM »
how about the remaining 9 holes of the philadelphia cricket club's St. Martin course in chestnut hill.  it originated pre 1900 and hosted two us open's before 1910.  i am sure it has been somewhat altered over the years, but not sure to what extent.

RSLivingston_III

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Re:Early Architecture in America
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2006, 03:48:20 PM »
Check out Wawashkamo in Northern Michigan, an 1898 Alex Smith. The green keeper did a good job of restoring the course there.
Oakhurst is another interesting course. Not sure how much is an authentic restoration and if it is actually a 19th century restoration. I think it was in constant change to deal with the golfers coming in from the Greenbrier, up until the Greenbrier actually built their first course. I think Oakhurst is actually a renovation of a 1910-ish course with some 19th century enhancements by Mr. Cupp.
If you can get on to see it, the Chicago area has Lake Zurich. 1890's course that has been minimally touched. Mostly I think some of the bermed bunkers have been filled. It is worth the trip just to go through the clubhouse.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2006, 03:50:44 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

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