Poa Annua - Less desirable?

[Jerry Kluger]

It has been my experience that many courses I have played have done everything they can to prevent poa annua from taking over their greens.  Personally, it seems to me that poa annua greens need to be cut very short and they can be very bumpy to putt on.  Brad Klein wrote an article in Super News where he said that poa annua was "less desirable."  

My question is what is more desirable than poa annua and when is it an acceptable choice for a green surface?  I know that there are some very highly rated courses that have these types of greens so under some circumstances they are more than acceptable - but when?  

[JSlonis]

Jerry,

In the Philadelphia/Southern NJ area, almost any other type of bent grass is better than Poa.  In the late Spring it's very bumpy due to the seed heads, in the early summer it's usually okay, then in the dead of the summer it can next to impossible to keep healthy.  Poa in this area is subject to all types of diseases.  If it actually does survive the summer, it is usually okay again in the fall.

There are many courses in this area that have totally regrassed their greens with some of the new bent strains in order to eradicate the Poa at least for a little while.  There are some new treatments that are being tested and used to keep the Poa from returning, but it is a very tough battle.

In climates just a bit further North than here, I found Poa to be a very good surface for most of the year with a lot fewer problems than we experience in the Middle Atlantic region.

[Scott Witter]

Jerry:

I presume some of the supers will chime in as they have much more experience with this component than the rest of us, but it has been my experience from playing, studying and listening to clients who love and hate this surface for the last 20 years.  In light of this, it seems that it is the seasonal inconsistency this weed grass (annual bluegrass) plays havoc with golfers and superintendents largely because of the seed heads that form so quickly from day to day, overnight and even during the course of one day.

It is very susceptable to pressure from heat, drought and being cut too short and as a result, it is very difficult to match it up with the bentgrass varieties in the remaining portions of a putting surface.  It also responds quite differently to management techniques, chemicals, aerification and the like and as you can imagine this is frustrating to the supers!

For years and years in any part of the US where this grass thrives and it is most! supers and agronomists, soil scientists have struggled to 'control' it and most find a way to tolerate it and do their best to slow its migration down.

Perhaps Dave Wilbur has some useful techniques or preventative measures to mitigate it?

Brad is right however, this is not a desirable species generally speaking.  On the other hand, you will also find many who will swear by it for fast green speeds when the season is right and I have seen it get REAL fast under the right circumstances.

Pure bentgrass, or at least a blend of bent, fescue and the like, makes for a strong and more predictable putting surface and one that can be managed in a variety of ways to achieve the conditions wanted.

[Jerry Kluger]

Scott: I have never played Riviera but I understand it has poa greens - how do they deal with it on a regular basis?

[Scott Witter]

Jerry:

Good question, but I am not the one to ask, but there must be others who post or lurk who have more site specific info to Riviera and could offer some insight.

[Dan Herrmann]

My old club in Portland (Riverside - H. Chandler Egan) has Poa greens.  They're awesome if it's not the bumpy season.  Poa greens can be fantastic.

In fact, many of the courses on the Pacific Coastal region have Poa and it's very successful.

But I do remember one year of very cold temperatures (-5 F) with no snow cover.  Many courses lost their greens.

[Bill_McBride]

Pebble Beach has poa greens.  They seem to be acceptable.

In the DC area, you can almost watch the seed heads grow when it starts to warm up.  That's not acceptable.  It's a climate thing.

[Sean Leary]

The whole west coast has Poa for the most part. At our course, we continue to fight off the poa on the greens but we have essentially lost the battle in the fairways and tees. Not possible at this point to keep it out, I'm afraid..

[Jordan Wall]

Sean,

I hope somehow your course can stay Bentgrass.

Played Ballinger the other day, a little nine holer with partial bent greens, and they were rolling pretty good.
At another course close by there is Poa and greens seem to be bumpy and slow.

I like Bent a lot better.

[rjsimper]

The greens at the course I grew up on, Palos Verdes CC, are small and 100 percent Poa.  They're some of the best in the area.  If you embrace the poa and maintain it properly, they can be absolutely beautiful putting surfaces.

The climate at PVGC is very mild - damp, 60-75 degrees, often overcast, almost Monterey-esque at times without quite the same chill.  I'm no agronomist, but I hear this climate complements the Poa well.

Now if they could find a way to embrace and make playable the kikuyu they have there....

[Marc Haring]

There are two types of greens. Those with poa annua and those that will have poa annua. It really is difficult to keep it out.

In Europe there is some encouraging work with continual overseeding, mainly with fescue. It doesn't eradicate it but you can start to control the undesirable effects through reducing it to acceptable levels. Generally anything less than 50% can produce some very good and consistent surfaces provided everything else is right.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Bill,
  I'm suprized that you talk about Poa in the DC area. We always considered that the transition zone, which would make it very hard from poa to survive the hot summers. That's why you don't find poa on the greens in the middle of the summer down here, in Atlanta, Charlotte. Poa's roots don't go down deep enough, therefore they die out very quick.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think elimination of Poa can only be achieved in the right climate. From a UK point of view it is almost impossible to retain poa free swards if you want to actually play golf on them during unfavourable conditions. Those conditions are probably 7 out of the 12 months. Many of the courses in North California, ie PebbB and Co have a similar climate to the UK. As mentioned Poa does not like it hot so if your getting plenty of days 28C and above, you can have a good battle to keep it out. Poa makes okay greens, but rarely really good ones over a long period. So definetly less desirable, but sometimes unavoidable.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
  I'm suprized that you talk about Poa in the DC area. We always considered that the transition zone, which would make it very hard from poa to survive the hot summers. That's why you don't find poa on the greens in the middle of the summer down here, in Atlanta, Charlotte. Poa's roots don't go down deep enough, therefore they die out very quick.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Tony, it doesn't survive into the summer, it's just a major pain in the ass during the end of winter and into spring.  Once the summer heat arrives it's toast, but the next spring -- it's ba-a-a-ck!  

[Craig Sweet]

Poa done right might be the best grass for greens....

[Adrian_Stiff]

Poa done right might be the best grass for greens....

The top 10 best surfaces I have ever seen are all creeping bentgrass, but you have to be in the right climate. There is no doubt that Poa is the only winner in many climates and it can make a nice surface for a while, as a plant though it has many weakness's (literally).

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