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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« on: May 20, 2003, 10:13:56 AM »
Wanted to let folks know about a new Gil Hanse design, French Creek GC in Elverson, PA (http:\\www.frenchcreekgolf.com).  (This will be a private non-equity club.)

I've walked the course several times, and I think Hanse has something very special here.  The holes use the natural terrain, the bunkering is spectacular, and the course rewards those with strength in every part of their game - length, shotmaking, short game, etc...

OK - I admit it, I'm a member, but I can't help gushing!  The course's back nine is scheduled to open this summer, with the front nine early next year.

I love the work of Hanse and Doak (minimialist), and have played Pacific Dunes, Cape Breton Highlands Links, and Bandon Dunes.  Right now, I'm putting French Creek right up there....

Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2003, 10:33:44 AM »
Dan,

It is always challenging to write about a place where one is a member. I've handled this by being as open as I can about features of the golf course but staying away from comments about how high the course ranks.

Ranking comments are a no win situation. Rank the course too high and people will question your credibility. Rank it too low and your fellow members will be pissed off.

But, if you share honest observations about the features of the course readers will learn something about the character of the place. That's what participating at Golfclubatlas is all about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2003, 10:34:33 AM »
We know of it.  A lot of good things have been said for the potential.  Post some pictures!!

It's all a big ol' Hanse, Doak, C & C love fest going on here, didn't you know?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

TEPaul

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2003, 10:40:52 AM »
danh:

There's a bunch of threads on French Creek in the back pages. How to find those thread is another matter though. Eric Pevito of French Creek is on here now and again too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2003, 10:48:25 AM »
Tim - your point is very well taken about rankings.

Since I haven't even played the course yet, I can't really rank it, can I   ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2003, 11:02:12 AM »
Dan,

Don't go down the road of trying to rank French Creek even after you play it many times. It will still be a no win situation.

Discuss features as openly as you can, but leave the matter of rankings to others.

By the way, the little town of Elverson, Pa has a pretty nice collection of golf courses now, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

TEPaul

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2003, 12:12:00 PM »
As I understand it--Elverson Pa has a five star Burger King too but don't go too fast or you'll miss it. And I don't just mean the Burger King--I mean Elverson.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2003, 12:32:22 PM »
Yes, French Creek has been discussed several times, a lot by Tom P.

mdugger,

Just click on the French Creek link in the original post to view pics on the club web site.  Flash sites don't allow direct pic posting.

Flash can be directly inserted into GCA posts, but the FC web site is too big to fully work (I tried it, pics won't view and hole close-ups don't work).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2003, 12:43:00 PM »

Quote
As I understand it--Elverson Pa has a five star Burger King too but don't go too fast or you'll miss it. And I don't just mean the Burger King--I mean Elverson.

Actually, the Burger King is just down the road in Morgantown, home of the Morgantown Furniture Factory Outlet...

As far as Elverson goes, it's actually pretty cool walking up the French Creek 12th fairway - you look right into Stonewall's current 18 and you can see the new 18 being built.  Interestingly, the Stonewall new 18 and French Creek are both using Glencoe Golf as the builder.  They also built a pretty nice public course up the road, Honeybrook.

And - I promise never to rank.  I agree that it's totally subjective and can't lead to goodness :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2003, 12:56:04 PM »
danherrmann:

I hope you had the good fortune to hang out on either French Creek or Stonewall2 when they were being built simultaneously. It's not that often one gets to see the "Battle of the Dueling Dozers" on two separate but contiguous golf clubs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2003, 01:57:16 PM »
Scott,

Thanks for the tip.  I did go look at the site and immediately began to dislike the length of time it takes the flash thingy to do its magic.  

I didn't find a lot of pictures there that drove me wild, although I didn't look for too long.  

If there was a way to get the pictures on the thread I'm positive you'd be the guy to get it working.  

Next time I'll look at the website before asking for pictures.  I'm impatient, and oh how I love those mid-costruction pictures.  

Go French Creek!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2003, 06:25:05 AM »
mdugger,
I was out there walking the front nine yesterday, and it's amazing how green it's gotten compared to April.  The fairways back then were pretty bare with just seeded grass.

I really like how Hanse has a tiny green on the short 5th, but a pretty huge green on the monster 6th.  So many courses nowadays have the same size green on every hole....

I'll take my camera next time and try to get some pics posted.    Is there anything that you'd like me to take pictures of?

It's really interesting how Hanse is handling tweaking of the course - the 14th was recently modified slightly to give more of a bail out area to the short/right of the green.  Fortunately, it's been very rainy, so it's grown in very quickly.

That rain has also led to several erosion areas, but the crew seems to have things well in hand here.  

By the way, you can see part of the front nine from I-76, the PA Turnpike just east of the Morgantown exit on the north side.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2003, 07:40:42 AM »
Dan H:  Just so you know, Glencoe Golf provided a lot of the labor and did the irrigation system for Stonewall Two, but Brubacher Excavating did the (limited) earthmoving, and Renaissance Golf had six guys on site doing the shaping:  Don Placek, Eric Iverson, Kye Goalby, Brian Schneider, Brian Slawnik, and Kyle Franz.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2003, 09:00:56 AM »

Quote
Dan H:  Just so you know, Glencoe Golf provided a lot of the labor and did the irrigation system for Stonewall Two, but Brubacher Excavating did the (limited) earthmoving, and Renaissance Golf had six guys on site doing the shaping:  Don Placek, Eric Iverson, Kye Goalby, Brian Schneider, Brian Slawnik, and Kyle Franz.

Thank you, sir!

(PS - I love Beechtree and Pacific Dunes - PD may have been my ultimate golf experience)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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grampa

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2003, 12:57:23 PM »
mr. herman and mr.doak

 Just to clarrify who the ACTUAL construction/labor providers were at Stonewall and French Creek. It would be GELCO not Glencoe. That stands for the George E. Ley Co. primarily a irrigation co. that dabbles in course building. My nephew worked for them a while back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2003, 01:05:25 PM »

Quote
mr. herman and mr.doak

 Just to clarrify who the ACTUAL construction/labor providers were at Stonewall and French Creek. It would be GELCO not Glencoe. That stands for the George E. Ley Co. primarily a irrigation co. that dabbles in course building. My nephew worked for them a while back.

Thanks - my mistake...  Glencoe was a suburb of Portland with a little rinky-dink golf course owned by the Elks.  Must've gotten the two mixed up...

GELCO's website is www.gelcogolf.com if anybody's interested...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Eric Pevoto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2003, 01:13:23 PM »
Dan Herrmann,

You've stumbled into a hornet's nest!  ;D  

Good advice from Mr. Weiman.  A discussion of features would be interesting. Hopefully, we can get more of the gca tree house out to see the place.

To echo Tom Doak and grampa, George Ley's company did the irrigation and "rough-in" at French Creek.  Gil, Jim Wagner, and Rodney Hine did the final shaping.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2003, 05:41:55 PM »


I took some pictures on Saturday of the back nine, but was chased away by a quick moving thunderstorm.  The day was cloudy, but the pics give a good idea of what's going on....

The site is http://www.chesco.com/~danh

Let me know if you'd like to see the full-size pictures - they look much better...

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2003, 08:49:11 PM »
Dan Hermann;

I started a thread on French Creek a while ago after walking it with Eric and would be curious what you think of my observations.  

They can be found at:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/YaBB.cgi?board=GD1&action=display&num=1038584617&start=0

Thanks!  ;D

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ian

Re: New Hanse design: French Creek GC
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2003, 08:57:34 PM »
I have the front and back from sunday, just show me some pateince and I'll add commentary too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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