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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Who would be the favorite?
« on: September 26, 2006, 11:04:53 AM »
If the Masters were played this week?


I'm talking about the guy you would put your money on to win the event, not the historically supported Vegas line favorite.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 11:08:29 AM »
Tiger freakin' Woods.

And I would take any and all reasonable bets.

TH

ps - if the Masters were this week, Tiger would have skipped the Ryder Cup... as would most others.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 11:09:11 AM by Tom Huckaby »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 11:13:46 AM »
Are you serious?  Can you make a case for anyone other than Tiger?

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 11:23:53 AM »
Can I make a case?

Let's get this straight, I am not suggesting it is not Tiger but, Sergio and Clarke and Montgomerie and Westwood must be feeling pretty good about their golf games right about now. They must also have a bit of the "king of the world" attitude going which is so important.

I do remember what transpired over the 8 weeks prior to the World Match Play, don't worry about that, but if you are going to suggest that Tiger does not get a bit down by poor performances and losing, I think you may be wrong.

I think momentum is huge both within a match or tournament (as the European team exemplified phenomenally this weekend) and in the course of a season or career.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 11:26:02 AM »
Sully  - that is a case, but the judge just dismissed it.

Oh, the Euros are flying high, sure.  And confidence is a big thing in golf.

BUT... they also know that team match play does not equate to individual stroke play, not even close.

So the line might be a little closer this week, granted.

But none of them are the favorites - and althought they are closer, they're still all a long way away.

TH

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 11:28:12 AM »
 We don't have to wait, Jim. They are playing this weekend aren't they?
AKA Mayday

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 11:34:43 AM »
Fair enough Huck, I can't argue that.

Mayday, In part, yes. But I just do not think these World Golf events create the same energy for the players, do you?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 11:38:51 AM »
 Jim,

   I don't know the answer to your question. But, we do have an immediate chance to see if any euros can translate that team/match play success into individual success.

  Ladbrokes odds

     Tiger 5/2
     Garcia 20/1
     Donald and Casey   25/1

   Go for it!

AKA Mayday

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 11:43:12 AM »
That is astonishing.

Which course are they playing?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 11:44:40 AM »
 The Grove in England
AKA Mayday

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2006, 11:45:26 AM »
Match play and stroke play are just really different, not to mention individual vs. team competition.

Look at Garcia getting taken apart by Furyk on Sunday in singles, after dominating two days of team play.

If the Masters is tomorrow, the Ryder Cup outcome makes no more difference than any other preceding event.  In fact, maybe less due to post-victory letdown.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tom Huckaby

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 11:45:59 AM »
Fair enough Huck, I can't argue that.

Mayday, In part, yes. But I just do not think these World Golf events create the same energy for the players, do you?

Agreed.  I think they do them more as an obligation and because of the $$$$... not for any glory or anything.

This week's event will prove this out, I think.  Watch for a non-Ryder Cupper to win it, unless Tiger does catch fire.  I think the RC players will be going through the motions.  Of course that wouldn't occur if the Masters were this week... but the WCOG Amex or whatever it is ain't the Masters.

TH

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 11:48:49 AM »
 Uh oh ! Gary Player says "The Grove is without a doubt one of the finest facilities in the world".
AKA Mayday

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 11:49:06 AM »
Sergio and Clarke and Montgomerie and Westwood are all chokers in the majors. The same thing that helps them in the Ryder Cup, namely playing on emotion, kills them in major championships. Stroke play in extremely difficult conditions over four days requires a certain degree of singleminded focus and the ability to block out highs and lows.

Not saying that a guy like Sergio will never win a major, but look at the guys who have won in recent years. Tiger is a robot who spits out the occasional F-bomb. Ben Curtis, Hamilton, Micheel, Olgilvy, Weir, Toms, Furyk, etc. Non are what you would call exuberant personalities. There will always be the exception—the John Daly pumping his fist walking up the 18th firing up the crowd—but I would usually favor the guy who can suppress/conquer his emotions.

Jordan Wall

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 12:23:37 PM »
Can I make a case?

Let's get this straight, I am not suggesting it is not Tiger but, Sergio and Clarke and Montgomerie and Westwood must be feeling pretty good about their golf games right about now. They must also have a bit of the "king of the world" attitude going which is so important.



In this case either of those players would have won the '05 Masters.  

Tiger is the favorite.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 12:24:17 PM »
Dan,

Tiger and Phil are about as exuberant as it gets. Your theory fails just based on their results. And hell, my other thread discussing Sergio versus Seve also bears that out. Seve was pretty exuberant, wouldn't you say? I'll never forget him strutting down the thirteenth fairway at Augusta in '86 celebrating his approach, shaking hands with his caddy. He looked like he was ready to give his speech.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 12:26:12 PM »
Jordan,

Why??

The Masters is not for another 6 months. My point was about the momentum they all have right now, but also the fact that I doubt this weeks event is quite as important to them as any of the Majors. I picked The Masters for no particular reason, but a Major is what I was driving at.

Jordan Wall

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2006, 12:33:02 PM »
Jim,

They had the momentum two years ago, and still no majors.

Why now should they win the majors??

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2006, 12:39:00 PM »
Jordan,

first - I am not saying they would. I am wondering how much their chances increase (if at all). It seems unanimous that they do not increase too much which is fine. See my post #6.

second - A six month break might have something to say about that momentum they currently posses. That's my view on it.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2006, 12:47:37 PM »
That would be a sure way to Make the Tiger / Phil team the longest odds on the board. Do you think if you and I could get a foursomes game against those two we would need any shots? If it were at Lehigh or HVCC?  ;D

Jordan Wall

Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2006, 12:47:57 PM »
Jordan,

first - I am not saying they would. I am wondering how much their chances increase (if at all). It seems unanimous that they do not increase too much which is fine. See my post #6.

second - A six month break might have something to say about that momentum they currently posses. That's my view on it.

Jim,

I wish I could explain it.

Somehow in the RC, Tiger misses those crucial three footers.  Somehow, there are always two or three I's in our team.  Somehow, we never make enough putts, never hit fairways, and always fold.

Yet, somehow, Monty can double bogey the 18th hole at the US Open, Sergio can go from 66 to 72 at Hoylake, Paul Casey cannot win even on the PGA Tour (much less a major).  BUT, for some reason, their team is as much of a team as a team can get.

For those reasons the US shall always control the majors, and never the RC.

 :-\

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2006, 01:20:40 PM »
JES-

Phil as about exuberant as it gets? Who were you watching at the Master's. The guy I saw had a somewhat creepy, looks-like-I-just-smoked-a-Bob-Marley-joint grin plastered to his face all day on Sunday.

Tiger's face is a mask. He might explode briefly in a brief burst of anger or rock the crowd with an upper-cut fist pump, but look how quickly he settles back into a stone face. He is in absolute control of his emotions.

Seve is a different animal all together. Like I said, there are exceptions. And look how quicky Seve burned out. No way a player can stay on top of his game when his emotions bubble so closely to the surface.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 01:20:52 PM by Dan_Callahan »

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2006, 01:24:20 PM »
A.G. -

I believe it was Stewart Cink that took apart Sergio as Furyk was taken apart by Paul Casey.
Mr Hurricane

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who would be the favorite?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 01:48:46 PM »

For those reasons the US shall always control the majors, and never the RC.

 :-\

Always?  Remember the late '80s and early '90s when Faldo, Woosnam, Seve, Lyle and Langer were winning majors.  Don't assume that because the current crop of Europeans isn't winning majors the next lot won't.  And it's still way too early to write off Casey, Donald, Garcia and Westwood as potential major winners.

It's a good thing for the US thaty you've got Tiger because your next generation of players don't look like major winners and Mickelson looks like the '06 US Open may have broken him.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

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