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J_McKenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2006, 09:54:31 AM »
I know this is a biased answer, even though I feel like I'm being objective, but I would have to believe that Kinderlou Forest in Valdosta, Ga. is one of the best values around.  All the golf course you want, good variety and good conditions.  I only wish it was about an hour closer.

John

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2006, 11:01:33 AM »
Mike, I prefer a little more challenge in my courses, Pajaro is an old man's course. If your afraid of losing balls it is a great track, better stay away from Pasa. :o

Tim -

Them are fighting words ... You be dissin' me as an old man?  

And as an old man, why would I be afraid of losing a ball or two?   It's the old man mantra to find more balls then they lose every round ...

Please don't put DeLaveaga in the same breath as Pasatiempo.  Do you think that Pasatiempo is more challenging off the tee than DeLaveaga?

Next time I'm up your way, we will have to get together at one of your old man courses ... ;)

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2006, 02:49:34 PM »
Mike, I prefer a little more challenge in my courses, Pajaro is an old man's course. If your afraid of losing balls it is a great track, better stay away from Pasa. :o
Tim -
Them are fighting words ... You be dissin' me as an old man?  
And as an old man, why would I be afraid of losing a ball or two?   It's the old man mantra to find more balls then they lose every round ...
Please don't put DeLaveaga in the same breath as Pasatiempo.  Do you think that Pasatiempo is more challenging off the tee than DeLaveaga?
Next time I'm up your way, we will have to get together at one of your old man courses ... ;)
Mike

Mike, your welcome in Sacto anytime! We even have three different Del Web Sun City courses here for you to not lose any balls on.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2006, 03:18:59 PM »
Mike, I prefer a little more challenge in my courses, Pajaro is an old man's course.

Old man's course? Surely you jest.
Come on down Tim, if you break par, I'll pay your greenfees...and buy you lunch. Unless you're scratch, then you'll have to do a little better than that.

Oh, and since when is losing balls the sign of a good golf course?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 03:19:50 PM by Peter Galea »
"chief sherpa"

Tom Huckaby

Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2006, 03:21:22 PM »
Speaking of this old man's course... Pete, make sure you're around on Fri 9/29... you might get a kick out of who shows up in full NCGA course rating garb....

 ;D

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2006, 03:25:33 PM »
Speaking of this old man's course... Pete, make sure you're around on Fri 9/29... you might get a kick out of who shows up in full NCGA course rating garb....

 ;D
Excellent.
"chief sherpa"

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2006, 04:46:37 PM »
Speaking of this old man's course... Pete, make sure you're around on Fri 9/29... you might get a kick out of who shows up in full NCGA course rating garb....

 ;D
just remember Pete you can dress some people up but shouldn't take them anywhere ;)
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2006, 06:26:29 PM »
Mike, I prefer a little more challenge in my courses, Pajaro is an old man's course.
Old man's course? Surely you jest.
Come on down Tim, if you break par, I'll pay your greenfees...and buy you lunch. Unless you're scratch, then you'll have to do a little better than that.
Oh, and since when is losing balls the sign of a good golf course?

Peter G, if I could shoot par I wouldn't be worrying about the on course hazards. Pajaro is a fine track but I was actually attempting to define the courses(Pajaro vs. De Laveaga) by difficulty of the hazards in play for the average golfer(me). It will be interesting to see how Tom Hucks slope rating for Pajaro will compare to De Lav's old slope. I have always considered slope rating as a measure of difficult hazards and green conditions which equates to challenges for me. I don't remember losing any balls at Pajaro as opposed to the old De Laveaga layout.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tom Huckaby

Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2006, 06:40:48 PM »
Tim:

If we do our job right, the numbers won't change that much.  At Pajaro we're doing the normal every 6 years re-rate... and nothing has changed that much in the course in the last six years... so the numbers ought to stay pretty much the same.  Our system has changed a little, which could cause a little flux... but massive change ought not to occur.

Therefore... base the comparison on what's there now and you won't be far off:

Pajaro:
Men
Blue     72        69.5     118      6261
White   72        68.3     116      6008


DeLaveaga:
Men
Blue      70        70.0     136      6114
White    70        68.4     132      5708


With yardages pretty similar, but par two strokes less at DeLav... the course ratings would tell you that raw difficutly favors DeLav by a pretty large margin.  Slope is a measure of the difference between course rating and bogey rating, so the much higher slopes at DeLav would tell you that it is much more relatively difficult for the bogey player than is Pajaro.  That can occur in many ways, but you're not far off basing it on the presence of hazards.

So in summary... I think it's very safe to say that DeLav is a more difficult course than Pajaro.  BUT... having played each of them many times, I don't believe I'd call Pajaro an "old man's course" or anything like that.. The greens are VERY tough, as are most of the approaches.  There are some wacky slopes on which a round can be ruined on one hole.  Yes, you likely won't lose many balls at Pajaro... but I'm with Pete - I highly doubt anyone shoots any record scores there.  I know I never have.

What's interesting also is that there are far more tee shot choices at DeLav - Pajaro is almost purely drivers, keep it between the trees, some angles better than others but not much huge demand on tee shots; but I like the approaches and greens far better at Pajaro.  They are just maddening.

I like both courses quite a bit.  My bottom line would be this:

DeLav is harder;
DeLav is more interesting off the tee;
Pajaro has far better greens and approaches;
on the overall Pajaro is the better golf course.

TH

ps - one more thing - Pajaro has way way way better conditions, and the friendliest coolest 19th hole bar of any course around.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 06:42:36 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Jay Flemma

Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2006, 06:51:46 PM »
Black Mesa

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2006, 10:07:24 PM »
1. La Purisima
2. Pacific Grove
3. Harding Park
4. Inniscrone
5. Rustic Canyon
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:your choice: public/resortcourse costing less than $100 to play
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2006, 10:07:55 PM »
Cateechee near Hartwell, GA is a heck of a deal. A Mike Young course, one of the best modern clubhouses around for $50 or so green fees.


Bob,

Sadly, Cateechee has increased their weekend fee to $70... and, they rarely offer the "Internet Specials" that became so famous with my Greenville crowd. We haven't played there in almost a year... with the price of gas, a one hour drive each way is a bit much.

Especially, when we can make the same drive and play Arrowhead Pointe... for around $40!

Mike
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)