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Alfie

Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« on: September 16, 2006, 06:18:27 AM »
HELP please !

Do any of you on here follow the columns of The Scotsman and in particular this past weeks contribution by Mike Aitken .... "The State of Scottish Golf ?"
http://sport.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1498

If so...what did you think of the double page spread over each of the six days ?

The reason I ask "on this democratic / free speach board" is that I had my response comments removed from thescotsman.com website ! Well...you know me. A spade's a spade !

I'll post my comments if I get any responses from "this" intellectual and free speaking board ?

Alfie.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 06:29:48 AM by Alfie »

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 07:29:03 AM »
So Alfie, what did you say that was "moderated" out ?

ForkaB

Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2006, 07:41:27 AM »
Looks like a potentially interesting forum, Alfie. I too would like to know what you said to which article that upset the Scotsman so.

Alfie

Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 07:44:44 AM »
Thanks for responding John.

Here's my latest diatribe, the reasons for which I'll be happy to explain to anyone who may interested ? I have to work for a few hours - but I'll get back to any questions on the issue.

Alfie.
...............................


OK. Let me start by saying that it's very difficult to refrain from being offensive and swearing after following The Scotsman's great debate re - THE STATE OF SCOTTISH GOLF ? More like THE STATE OF OUR ELITE PLAYERS and how to fund their success ! Apart from the Prestonfield article which only scratched the surface of grass roots golf in Scotland, the rest has been a complete WHITEWASH and dare I say - a complete waste of time and media space ! Did I not forewarn your sports editor that such a well intentioned exercise would be entirely futile if you did not at least try to examine the detrimental affects that "permissible" technology advances are having on the sport universally, and not just in Scotland ?
Heaven knows what Friday and Saturday's editions will reveal regarding the true issue's that threaten club golf in Scotland - probably more than anywhere else on the planet ?
And before anyone misinterprets the above, I firmly believe our most talented and gifted players should be supported to the hilt both at Am and Pro levels. The real question is WHO should be coughing up the finances ? The Scottish Golf Union ? NO ! Has everyone forgotten Drumoig already ?
But back to that controversial topic of technology. Here are a few questions for The Scotsman to consider relating to Scottish (international) golf ; how much expense does (has) the ineffective control of technology burdened upon golf and it's golfers ? Why do the ruling bodies fail their remit to protect and preserve the "sport" ? How many more of Scotland's 550 or so courses should be subjected to an unnecessary future of "Pitch & Putt" status ?
How much longer before golf returns to it's elitist tag purely because time and money are the prime reasons for NOT taking up the sport ? How many more questions would The Scotsman like to address in the name of Scottish Golf ?
Unfortunately, these are a sample of questions that the R & A and others' - just don't like to be asked about, non least - to actually make truthful comments upon !

PITYFUL !

Alfie Ward - trying to speak for Scottish grass roots golf !

Alfie

Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 07:57:38 AM »
Rich,

Now I would have thought that you might be a "Scotsman" person. I know that FBD is one  :)

It'll be interesting to see the public replies on Monday and "their" context ?
The Scotsman made a big deal about this "hard hitting" series of articles examining The State of Scottish Golf. Obviously, I was less than impressed !

Alfie

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2006, 08:30:18 AM »
It appears you have a fair point there Alfie - your argument being that the increased length of the average drive has obsoleted Scotland’s shorter 18-Holers and 9-Holers - and the Golfing powers are doing nothing about it.

However can you back this up with statistics about clubs going obsolete and not just statistics about the length of the drive?

When, as the SGU intends, all the courses get new USGA Course Ratings how will they compare with the old SSS.
How many courses will be remaiin the range of 70+ and how many will sink below say 65.

Certainly these shorter courses are less attractive than a quarter of a century ago but are they really closing down? I've noticed older golfers tend to orientate to shorter courses anyway - and they have the time and money.

What about the fact that in the last 25 years Scotland has risen from 450 Golf Courses to 550 Golf courses.
The expectancy for the conditioning of the course has risen with increased green keeping costs.
The average Green Fee price has risen so much that the supply and demand curve has responded by flattening out.

Personally I detest the fact technology is reducing "long" courses to "average" courses rather than actually obsoleting them.

Just some thoughts and I don’t pretend to know any of the answers - unless you want to talk about “quad-furcation” ;)

Alfie

Re:Contradicting The Scotsman.com ?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 02:00:17 PM »
John,
"It appears you have a fair point there Alfie - your argument being that the increased length of the average drive has obsoleted Scotland’s shorter 18-Holers and 9-Holers - and the Golfing powers are doing nothing about it."

Mostly right, but not the main point I was making. The Scotsman made a big deal of this series of articles and headlined them - The State of Scottish Golf ! At the start of the week, I e-mailed The Scotsman's sports editor and commended them for allocating so much space to the issue while also urging them NOT TO FORGET the relevance of technology advances in the whole equation. As it transpired, the  Scotsman exercise said absolutely nothing about grass roots golf in Scotland (IMO). Mostly because they didn't have the guts to examine technology !

John ; "However can you back this up with statistics about clubs going obsolete and not just statistics about the length of the drive?"

Give me about ten years down the line and maybe I could reluctantly supply the stats ? I tend not to overplay the obsolete word, although trends and fashions and distance did prove lethal to several clubs from, say, the 1920's and leading up to WW11. From a Scottish perspective, the facts are there ; clubs are struggling to maintain membership numbers and if this trend continues, there are definitely going to be casualties ! I believe that clubs & courses are presently crumbling in the States but I don't why exactly it's happening there ? One connection that can be made between the States and the UK, is that we have the longest established clubs and courses !
Emerging countries are less affected by distance (at the moment) because they have newer courses built to newer distance values.  ;)

John ; "What about the fact that in the last 25 years Scotland has risen from 450 Golf Courses to 550 Golf courses."

If you look at this upsurge in courses I think that you'll find that most of these are in the tourism / exclusive bracket. Little, if anything, in connection with the game at grass roots level. I think I'd be right in saying that they've been specifically designed for the incoming visitor which I have absolutely no gripe with. Golf tourism is essential to Scotland's economy.

John ; "Just some thoughts and I don’t pretend to know any of the answers - unless you want to talk about “quad-furcation”

Good one John and believe it or not - a valid point ! How many bifurcations presently exist within the sport ? Ladies v gents v juniors / the Am game v the Pro game / the impliments the pro's use and the ones we use ?

As I see it, at least America is talking about technology in golf. It's always swept under the carpet in the UK ?
The Scotsman simply brushed Scottish club golf under the same carpet last week while trying to flog a few more copies of an ailing newspaper on the strengths and weaknesses of our "elite" players.

Alfie

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