Bandon or Scotland

[Aaron Katz]

I'm hoping to take a great golf vacation at some point in the next 10 months, and I need to decide where to go.  I'm thinking either Bandon or Scotland.  

If I do Scotland, I'm debating whether I should simply spend a full week right in St. Andrews and playing the Old Course as much as possible (either on the ballot, as a single walk on, or getting reserving tee times through the course next Wednesday).  My other inclination is to head further north to Dornoch and play there several times, with a possible finish at the Old Course.  I don't have the inclination to do a British Open rota tour or anything like that; I'd rather learn the intracies of one or two courses over several days of consecutive or near consecutive play if possible.

Based on my desired Scottish itinerary, would you recommend going to Bandon or Scotland?  I haven't been to either place and, as a young lawyer, don't have a ton of vacation time for golf trips.  Would you recommend doing a true Scotland tour when I have a bit more off time (say, more than a week)?

Also, I'd like to hit Bandon when the rates are a bit lower.  How are the playing conditions during the off-season?  I don't mind a bit of a chill, but would obviously prefer firm conditions when playing there.

[Mike Benham]

Where are you living?

If you are on the East Coast, Scotland is perhaps the easier trip and probably less expensive (on a per day basis).  

When you go to Scotland, you will go for at least a week.  There are many more courses than just TOC that you should include in an initial trip to Scotland.  Prestwick, Dornoch, North Berwick and countless others ... plus a trip to Anstruther for the best Fish and Chips on the planet ...

Unless you are planning on other stops on your trip to Bandon (Monterey, etc.) , then you will probably only be in Bandon for 3 - 5 days.

[Aaron Katz]

I'm in Boston, and I was thinking it might be easier to do Scotland travel wise.  If I can get a decent rate flight to Portland, however, I'm not averse to driving to Bandon and doing a short trip, playing 36 holes a day for three days to take advantage of the replay rates.  Bandon is such an attractive option to me precisely because you only have three choices (should I even play Bandon Dunes, or stick to Pacific and BT?).
 
I'd love to spend 10 - 14 days in Scotland and play TOC, Dornoch, Troon, Prestwick, etc.  But I just don't have the time right now.  If I had only 5 playing days in Scotland, I thought sticking to TOC as much as possible (and playing the New Course other times) might be a less stressful visit.  I'm definitely going to do another (i.e. BIG) Scotland trip later in life (next five or six years).  

[ed_getka]

Bandon  is a good place to start as you have 3 worthy courses in one place, and if you golf all day the costs become a bit more reasonable at Bandon. After 36 holes the golf is free. If you are not inclined to golf 36 holes a day at Bandon then I would opt for Scotland, but you would want a least 6-7 days on the ground to make Scotland worthwhile. Dornoch, Cruden Bay, St Andrews, and North Berwick would be a great trip. St Andrews has some sort of ticket for all the other courses that is pretty reasonable for unlimited play if I remember right (excludes TOC). If you are interested in the Scotland itinerary I mentioned I can point you to a great chanin of hostels that will cost you about 10-12 pounds/night.
Have fun planning.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Aaron,  I've just come back form my first trip to Scotland so I'm now officially biased (even as an Irishman), but is the weather in both locations over the next 10 months always comparable?  

I can't ignore all non golf issues unlike some on here claim to do...


How many hours of light are there at each location during those winter months.  Even within Scotland there’s a difference.  I’m guessing there’s only 5 hours daylight at Dornoch on 22nd of December vs. 6-7 at North Berwick?

[Tim Pitner]

Bandon is such an attractive option to me precisely because you only have three choices (should I even play Bandon Dunes, or stick to Pacific and BT?).

Aaron,

Sometimes I think this site does more harm than good.  Bandon Dunes is not bulletproof, but it's a fantastic course.  IMHO, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, it gets slighted here mostly because it's not a Doak or C&C course.  I worry about a new poster who might be so jaded that they think Bandon Dunes isn't even worth playing.  

On my last trip to Bandon, we played Pacific and Trails twice and Bandon only once (because we hadn't played Trails yet, wanted to play it twice and chose to play twice at Pacific rather than Bandon).  Even though Pacific Dunes is my favorite course and I was very impressed with Bandon Trails, I enjoyed my round at Bandon Dunes just as much as the rounds on the other courses.  So, to answer your question, yes, you should play Bandon Dunes, goddammit.  

BTW, if you have time to kill, the drive from Portland isn't bad, but I prefer to fly into North Bend to maximize the time playing golf.  You should look into playing Sheep Ranch also.  

[ed_getka]

Aaron,
   You should definitely play all 3 courses at Bandon if you go. I personally weight it towards Pacific somewhere along the lines of 7 PD:2 BT: 1 BD. In talking to staff last year Bandon Dunes gets by far the most play, so most golfers have a different opinion than the treehouse. You should form your own opinion and see all 3.
    Book yourself a room at the resort well in advance as I would imagine reservations are even harder to come by since the Curtis Cup.

[Tim Pitner]

Ed,

I'm curious--does your PD 7/BT 2/ BD 1 preference reflect how often you would actually play the courses if you had 10 rounds out there?

Aaron,

Sorry to deviate somewhat from your topic.  I haven't been to Scotland yet; I'm planning my own trip.  To me, it seems like you'd need 7-10 days to do it justice, but you've got a good headstart on me (I'm in Denver).  

[cary lichtenstein]

As much as I love Bandon, Scotland is Scotland and you should go there first.

Dornock is way up North

[Brent Hutto]

As much as I love Bandon, Scotland is Scotland and you should go there first.

Dornock is way up North

Translation, driving from Fife to Dornoch is about like driving from Portland to Bandon. Very remote...by British standards.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Go to St. Andrews.

Play the Old Course whenever possible and the New. Go out to Kingsbarns and then down to Crail or Elie. If you have time, Lundin Links.

Sleep in the same bed every night and have a perfectly good time.

Bob

[rjsimper]

Should you go to Bandon, under no circumstances should you not play all three courses at least twice each.


I can't offer an opinion as I am from Los Angeles and have not been to Scotland, but intuitively I would think that if given the choice between the two and both were 10-hour travel forays to get there, I think I'd choose Scotland.

However, for me Bandon is 5 hours and Scotland is pushing 15+, which changes things a wee bit.

[paul westland]

Aaron:  Go to the St Andrews Links website and check the dates for Old Course in Reverse,early April 07.  A reasonably priced package includes Old Course, played clockwise and anti-clockwise, with New, Jubilee, or Eden sandwiched in between. Three years ago I played my first rounds in Scotland in late March; opening with Montrose, Cruden Bay, and Royal Aberdeen, then drove into St Andrews for the package. I stayed outside of town @The Old Station.  Very tranquil guest house, and most importantly, an easy drive to Anstruther for the fish and chips, and the wonderful wonderful Dreel Tavern.  Cheers to All.  

[Tom_Doak]

Aaron:

If you have not been to Scotland, go to Scotland, and soak up what not "what golf is meant to be", but what golf actually was and is.

That said, the downside of Scotland is arranging to play the courses you want to play.  Booking more than one tee time on the Old Course is pretty much impossible unless you know a member of the R & A; same for Muirfield.  For a five-day trip, I would book one round in advance on The Old Course if possible, and then spend the rest of your time playing in and around Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane 1-2-3, where you don't have to keep driving all over the place.

[Aaron Katz]

Tom, you've convinced me -- Scotland it is.  Now I've just gotta break the news to my wife.  

[Chris Moore]

Aaron:

I, too, am a young lawyer; in my first seven years of practice, I never took a vacation of a full week.  I deeply regret not taking more time to do things I enjoy in my first few years of practice.  Take the full week and go to Scotland.

I have not been to Bandon.  I have been to Scotland twice (2003 and 2006).  As long as Scotland is an option, I will never go to Bandon.  There is just nothing like playing golf in Scotland.

Fly to Glasgow overnight on a Friday.  Stay at the South Beach Hotel in Troon.  Play two rounds at Western Gailes.  Play Prestwick.  Play Royal Troon (Royal Troon is special; it gets unnecessarily abused here) or Dundonald (a new Kyle Phillips course adjacent to Western Gailes -- it is a brawny contrast to the quirk of Western Gailes).  If you want to play a jet-lag round, play Irvine the day you arrive.  Drive to St. Andrews.  Play Old and New (as discussed in a recent thread, it is also a special course), then Crail or Elie.  Or skip St. Andrews and drive to North Berwick and stay in the Marine Hotel ( I think that is the name of the hotel overlooking the West Links).  From there you can play the West Links, Muirfield, and Gullane.  Fly home Saturday.  Rest up on Sunday and then get back to the timesheets.    

Take the full week and enjoy the golf.  And enjoy the other things Scotland has to offer that Bandon cannot -- golf in the middle of ancient towns and people that are a joy to meet.

(Stepping down from podium).

             

[Jim Adkisson]

Aaron...Have fun with whichever locale you decide to go...you couldn't go wrong with either choice!  As a Portlander who last traveled to Scotland on a bicycle before the golf bug completed infected me, I only have experience with clubs at Bandon...If you come to the left coast and go to Bandon, spend time on all three courses...they are all great fun and pose different challenges...like most all of golfing humanity, I do prefer PD, but BD and BT are both worth spending many rounds.

[ed_getka]

Tim,
    Yes that is the 10 round breakdown. I could even go 6:3:1.

Aaron,
    If you are traveling alone, depending on the course you should expect to play alone. For some reason, when you make a tee time in Scotland, you end up golfing as a single. They do not fill out groups, other than at TOC in my limited sample. At least that was my experience. I even specifically requested to be paired with a local member so I could learn more about the course and its history. I pointed out to them that I was perfectly happy to pay the regular guest fee, and was not angling for a deduction in the green fee by playing with a member. Not one single course accomodated my request. Hopefully some of the GCA guys will have time to get together, as they will add immeasurably to your trip.

[Mike Nuzzo]

In the past 10 months I have played very few rounds (12)...
But of those 11 were at the following spots...

PD - 2
BT - 2
BD - 2

Old Course - 2 (backwards was one of them)
North Berwick - 1
New Course - 1
Kingsbarns - 1

Both trips were approximately 5 days - I'm in Houston.
I had a meaningful trip to Scotland for 4 days of playing - but more is better.

You certainly can't go wrong... I will never forget either trip.

[ForkaB]

Aaron

I agree with the general theme of the responses, and with Bob Huntley's specific idea.

1.  Do Scotland ahead of Bandon.  The latter is a great concentration of great golf, but that's all it really is.  Scotland has so much more to offer, including tremendous variety in the golf.  Do Bandon by all means, but later, and with a different agenda and expectations.
2.  Stay in one place and absorb it, rather than flit around trying to put notches in your gun.  You can do that later, and will, assuming you fallin love with Scottish golf, as most ofus on this site have at some time
3.  The best place to stay for such a 1st visit is St. Andrews.  You have to play the Old Course.  In the town, the New and Eden are interesting in their own way.  Outside the town you have the courses Bob mentioned, plus at least 10 others within an hour's drive that might blow your socks off (depending on how firmly placed your socks are on the day...).  You might even spend an 1 1/2 hours at the 9-holer at Anstruther, after having the world-class fish and chips.
4.  There are 3 other venues which could also sustain your interest for a week:  East Lothian, Ayrshire and Dornoch.  They are all fantastic in their own way.  If you get bored with St. Andrews, you could hit any one of those areas for a day or two road trip.  The first two are 2 hours driving time away, Dornoch is 4 hours.  Do hire a car, as redanman said.
5.  Go in the summer.  Winter golf in Scotland is very interesting and much better than expected, but it is an acquired taste.  In the summer you can easily play 54 a day if you are so inclined.

Whatever you choose to do, Enjoy!

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

Tim,
    Yes that is the 10 round breakdown. I could even go 6:3:1.

Aaron,
    If you are traveling alone, depending on the course you should expect to play alone. For some reason, when you make a tee time in Scotland, you end up golfing as a single. They do not fill out groups, other than at TOC in my limited sample. At least that was my experience. I even specifically requested to be paired with a local member so I could learn more about the course and its history. I pointed out to them that I was perfectly happy to pay the regular guest fee, and was not angling for a deduction in the green fee by playing with a member. Not one single course accomodated my request. Hopefully some of the GCA guys will have time to get together, as they will add immeasurably to your trip.

Ed,

Probably because golfing alone isn't an unusual thing to do in Scotland, most courses have free tee times so there isn't a need to join groups and the starters wouldn't want to impose a single on another group who may prefer not to be joined.  There's nothing to stop you speaking to other groups and seeing if they'd mind joining up, however, and many members might be more than happy to do so.

[michael j fay]

Both

Scotland first, followed by Bandon.

[Phil McDade]

Rich:

He could do Anstruther in about an hour, and take in its famous dog-legging par 3 as well as the fish and chips!

Aaron, lots of recommendations here, but if you do go to Scotland, my only suggestion would be this: take half a day to play at one of the country's less-renowned courses. Scotland's just chock-full of courses -- seemingly every little town has one -- and you'll get a true sense of how the Scots play and revere the game if you get away from the courses everyone in the US seeks to play and spend some time at off-the-beaten path courses. In and near Fife, Anstruther, Cupar and Edzell all merit some interest and are not often played by visiting golfers.

[Jason Shanks]

Aaron,

From a fellow young attorney with a wife and a 2 yr. old daughter, go to Scotland.

While I haven't had the pleasure of going to Bandon, I have done some golf trips in the U.S. before.  This past May, however, I took my first golf trip to Scotland.  An eye-opening experience in every conceivable sense of the phrase.  The golf is great, the people and the experiences are better.

We did a 7 day trip, including travel days.  So, we had roughly 6 1/2 days of golf.  Ours was a 2-base trip, St. Andrews and Royal Dornoch -- 4 days in St. Andrews and 2 days in Dornoch.  We played Lundin Links, Elie, TOC, Jubilee, North Berwick, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, Brora and Royal Dornoch.  In hindsight, I might have liked our trip better if we had skipped Royal Aberdeen and Cruden Bay, opting to spend an extra day in Dornoch.  But that being said, it was still the most amazing experience of my golfing life.

I did all the planning for the trip myself.  If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Have fun!