[Jim Sweeney]

Now this is getting interesting:

Don't know exactly what this means, but.....

Scores shot in tournaments that limit the number of clubs are not valid for handicap posting.

There is no decision with reagard to tournaments requiring use of hickories.

I suspect that the USGA Handicap Proceedures Committee has never been asked the question regarding hickories.

I know that mixing philosophis about the Rules of Golf and the Rules of Handicapping is a dangerous thing, and I don't want to hijack the topic, but:

In general, for a score to be posted for handicap the round must be played by the rules with a few exceptions (Lift, clean and place and handheld yardage devices.)

What can we postulate about committees restricting equipment, the rules, and handicap posting? Is this a wrinkle in the firmament of the USGA?In other words, is there a lack of consistancy evident?

[Willie_Dow]

Jim: The last time I played a round on the West at Merion with my hickories my score was the same as with my regular set of clubs.  When you have a good game plan figured out, you can match your score accordingly.

[Brent Hutto]

Willie,

How about with a soft, high-spin golf ball. Do you think you could play to your handicap with regular modern clubs and a ball that performs like a 20-year-old wound ball?

I would think the answer to this question is exactly what the OGA is trying to ascertain with their experiment. I also think the answer depends in part on the course setup. If you held a tournanent at the Ocean Course at Kiawah in a 30mph wind with the tees pushed back to 7,000 yards a modern ball would be a big advantage.

[Willie_Dow]

Brent - Conditions of play have little to do with the ball I would use.  If it is firm and fast at Kiawah my hickories would run and run low, no matter what ball I would play with.

[JSlonis]

Here is a link to the unveiling:

http://www.golfdigest.ie/newsandtour/index.ssf?/newsandtour/gw20060811ohioball.html

No word on the manufacturer.

[TEPaul]

Brent Hutto said:

"If a state amateur championship were held as a hickory-club event, that would be a very silly tournament and almost no good players would play in it. Likewise, I suspect that having a reduced-distance competition ball is going to strike a lot of elite players as pretty silly and they won't want to play in the tournament. Or maybe not, it's up to them.

None of that makes a hickory-club tournament or a one-ball tournament a violation of the Rules of Golf. There's lots of oddball formats with which you could organize tournaments but you don't need special Rules to deal with them. If a tournament does not waive (and thereby violate) any of the Rules of Golf then its existance is not a Rules issue."

Brent:

There is something you're not understanding well here.

When you say that if a tournament (or any other situation) does not waive (or more appropriately violate) a Rule of Golf you are assuming that the interpretation of the Rules of Golf are totally written in stone never to be interpreted and altered or evolved in the future.

For better or for worse that is simply not the way it works in the Rules of Golf in the past or today.

If some issue or situation interests, for any reason, those who write and interpret the Rules of Golf they have the right and the ability to alter and evolve the Rules of Golf to include or accomodate it, and they have been doing that forever. I can give you literally hundreds of examples of how that is and why that is.

That is the way the Rules of Golf have always been. One only needs to read through their history and their evolution to understand how true that is.

Some of the alterations and interpretations some (such as us) may not completely agree with but that is the way it is and has been since the establishment of Golf Rules.

[TEPaul]

Jim Sweeney said:

"Now this is getting interesting:

Don't know exactly what this means, but.....

Scores shot in tournaments that limit the number of clubs are not valid for handicap posting."

Jim:

What it means is pretty simple really, even if apparently very few on here see the reason for it. What it means is the USGA views things like that as a problem, an obstacle. The thing they always want to do is maintain continuity and consistency throughout everything they do in this vein and that includes consistency between the areas of Golf Rules and the area of golf handicapping.

Can we really expect them to view it otherwise without gutting the value and effectiveness of one or the other area?  

[JohnV]

I suspect that the USGA Handicap Proceedures Committee has never been asked the question regarding hickories.

Jim,  I have asked a member of the HPC about posting scores with hickories (he works with me).  I was curious if I could have two separate handicaps, one for hickories and one for my regular clubs.  He said no, all scores had to be posted together.  There is no provision for using a different set of clubs in the handicap procedures.  Since I've yet to put a set together, I haven't had to deal with it.

[JohnV]

I just realized that in another attempt to ensure that the big hitters don't win the Ohio tournament, they scheduled the same time as the US Amateur, therebye ensuring that the best players wouldn't be there.

[Brent Hutto]

On second thought, never mind...

[Glenn Spencer]

41 Players, what a joke!! Chris Wilson will win this thing if they play it with a tennis ball!!

[JohnV]

Glenn,

They have 78 players.  37 off the 1st tee and 41 off the 10th.

Oops, 41 off the 1st and 37 off the 10th.

[Glenn Spencer]

JVB,

3 goes into 78 pretty easily. No reason to have 37 and 41. I don't recognze most of those names on the second page. I wonder if that is indeed, the Senior Division. If this is not the case, then I am once again a jerk.

[Garland Bayley]

41 Players, what a joke!! Chris Wilson will win this thing if they play it with a tennis ball!!

But will he hit it 10, 20, 30 yards or more shorter than normal?
 

[JohnV]

JVB,

3 goes into 78 pretty easily. No reason to have 37 and 41. I don't recognze most of those names on the second page. I wonder if that is indeed, the Senior Division. If this is not the case, then I am once again a jerk.

I wondered why they would have 3 groups of 2 at the top, but then they do things oddly in Ohio.  Perhaps it is the Seniors, I didn't know they had a Senior Division.  Do they have to use the same ball?

[Glenn Spencer]

I don't know the logic for that. 3 groups of 2. Bizarre. It has do be 2 different divisions or they are the dumbest people in the history of sports and I know that not to be true. I would imagine that they are all playing the same ball, but no facts for that.

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