When greens get too fast...

[Jordan Wall]

How many clasic courses with super severe greens (or really great greens) have had the contours and overall quality of the greens ruined because green speens are too fast?

I caddied for someboidy yesterday who recently got back from Pine Valley.
He said he was dissapointed he did not get to see the real contours of the greens because the greens were just too fast...
He also said PV was his new favorite course, so I am not knocking the place.

But, in all reality, when do green speeds begin to ruin greens?

[Wayne Freeman]

This is a good question, and I'll be very interested in the different views.  Personally I think in a lot of instances, members of private courses have focused so much on getting greens speeds ridiculously fast that the enjoyment of playing great greens is diminished.
   When I played Myopia Hunt, I just loved the course but it seemed like the greens were running at least 12. Now when that course was built over 100 years ago, you know the greens were designed for speeds a fraction of that.  Now we all know that those would be way too slow now, but at speeds in the 9-10 range at least you might have a decent chance.  I like fast greens, but when you're 4 feet above a hole, barely touch it, and then it rolls off the green 40 yards away because you missed it-  to me there's something wrong there.  Sure there's nothing wrong with Augusta having linoleum speeds for the tournament and maybe Oakmont and Merion doing the same thing for the U.S. Am, but what's up with the urge to make greens unputtable for the rest of us?

[Jordan Wall]

At Seattle, where the greens roll no more then an 11 or so, there is already one green that is going to be rebuilt because the slope is too severe.
 

[John Kirk]

This has been discussed before.  There's no universal answer, but TE Paul has suggested that once greens roll faster than about 11 feet, things  can get out of hand.  But it truly depends on the green slopes.

Pasatiempo is often cited as a course whose green speeds are excessive for the slopes, even though the greens generally run 10-11 there.  Some holes have very few reasonable pin placements at that speed.

I also believe Sand Hills' greens are too fast for the slopes.  Last time I played there the greens were absolutely lightning fast, most likely 13-14 feet.  I felt at that speed many potentially enjoyable pin placements were impossible to use.  Nevertheless the greens were amazingly fast and smooth.

[Ryan Farrow]

I believe green speeds can never be too fast. After playing on arguably the fastest greens in the world I can truly say this and believe myself, at least.

All fast greens do is cause a player to be more cautious and really makes them use their head. For once a golfer will have to find out where not to miss. At Oakmont a few holes come to mind such as the right of 10 and 17, back of 2 right of 6 etc.

Perhaps it’s not as "fair" the first time a player is out on the course but eventually they will learn. Good cadies can help facilitate this and make the first play more enjoyable but fast greens and great contours make for a fun experience.

I was the victim of missing the wrong side of greens but think of it this way, you will always have an uphill putt or chip on the way back; D

[Adam Clayman]

He said he was dissapointed he did not get to see the real contours of the greens because the greens were just too fast...

Jordan,
 Did these words ring true to you? Or did you just accept them?

It's my experience that the faster the green the more the slope and gravity affect the ball. Highlighting the "real' contours.

I'm closer to Ryan's opinion, feeling that whatever is presented, it is up to the golfer to adapt.

[Jordan Wall]

He said he was dissapointed he did not get to see the real contours of the greens because the greens were just too fast...

Jordan,
 Did these words ring true to you? Or did you just accept them?

Dunno, I'm asking to see whether or not there is truth to that.

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